Live game

[KillerBoo]

Just want to share a nice litte hand from sunday´s live game.
$200 buyin, NLT Freeze. 80 ppl in the game. ITM at FT (10 player tables)
First a litte background, and then I´ll try to write a normal HH. Stack sizes are approximate, but accurate enough to be relevant

My image is very tight, and aggressive. Stacks at the table vary from around 6K up to just under 150K with me just under 70K. Blinds at 2K/4K, no antes.
The table is very tight, not to say weak and steals are very commonly accepted without any fights and we were 7 players seated at the table. (15 left in the tourney).

UTG folds and shortstacked UTG+1 moves in for his last 6K. Then the strangest thing happens. The player after him makes a min reraise and everyone else after that calls. On this table, it was remarkable because a min raise almost always got away unchallenged from everyone but me. All of a sudden there are 5 players in a pot thats been raised and reraised. I´m on BB and haven´t even looked at my cards yet. I decide to call because there´s so much in the pot, and to reraise this pot without anything less than pocket aces felt like it would be committing suicide. Nevertheless, with so much chips to win I almost always call for value.

SB (around 40000 in chips) 2000
BB (KillerBoo, appx 70000 in chips) 4000
UTG (Chip Leader) folds
UTG+1 (short stacked) moves all in for 6000 (My guess is any2 paints or PP´s)
CO (appx 20000 in chips) reraises to 10000 (Obv wants a call, AA or KK?)
Button (also around 20000 chips) calls for 10000 (wtf, a CALL for half the stack?)
SB calls for 8000 (Strange since this is the one player I thought was playing for scared money)
Pot is 40000 and it cost me 6000 more to see the flop so:
KillerBoo calls for 6000 with unseen cards

Pot size 46000

Flop:
A K 4, Rainbow
I check in the blind. Even if I knew my cards, I wouldnt bet any hand that wasnt a set when first to act in a raised and reraised pot with both an ace and a K on the board, with 5 players in.
so:
SB checks
KillerBoo checks
And EVERYone checks down the flop. (OK either everybody has a low PP or at least someone flopped a set of Aces or Kings. Right?)

Turn:
Q, Still rainbow.

Original raiser now moves all in for his last 10K
Button folds
SB calls for 10000 of his (now) 30000 stack. (weird, calling off one third of his stack)

Now I HAVE to look at my cards.... and look down at QQ. So, I have bottom set against 2 tight players that are playing their rather low stacks in a peculiar way. Could I really be up against BOTH AAA and KKK? Or, am I up against one AK and one set? Or a set and a straight? JT makes a bit sense if it´s held by SB calling preflop for value but still...? Wouldnt a made straight push for his last 20K to at least get a lone ace or king off a possible full house on the river? Scared for a made boat? Why not fold if that´s the case?
Either way, I think I made a mistake here in the long run because I called the 10000 more chips. Even though its good value with close to 7:1 for my money, I call when knowing I was probably drawing to a one-outer.
Should I have looked at my cards and come out betting on turn? Comment please

Rivercard is the magic 4th Queen

I decide to check and hope SB will bet. There´s no way he will call a bet with a straight, but if he indeed has a full house, then he will probably bet into me.
Sure enough.
I check, SB moves all in. Instacall of course.
Original raiser shows KK for a full house KKKQQ
SB shows JT for an Ace high straight (Very strange move I have to say tho) and I take down a mega pot with quad queens.

The strange thing is, that if I had looked down at my cards preflop I would probably have played the same way, or possibly folded them preflop). My biggest mistake in this hand was probably to call the bet on turn though, KNOWING I had to be way behind. I got lucky that time, but I have to admit, I did feel like a donk.

Went on to finish 3rd, after a back2back loss with aces vs kings, and queens vs AK. A nice pay but the hand to remember was the hand I SHOULD have folded.... I played solid poker all night, except the hand I won the biggest pot with... Even an ugly guy sometimes scores with the ladies

 

[The Shrog]

So...you would have played QQ this way at the Final Table?....calling a minraise with a million people in the pot?

 

[ythelongface]

well if your gonna play it, seems to me you should shove it allin pf. i mean your in the money, you have a strong hand. i dont like that you didnt look at your hand b4 calling. had you done so, you could have shoved right there and possible forced somebody out at the least. it worked out for you, but 7 handed, 3 already in, i would rather get all my money in pf.

 

[KillerBoo]

well if your gonna play it, seems to me you should shove it allin pf. i mean your in the money, you have a strong hand. i dont like that you didnt look at your hand b4 calling. had you done so, you could have shoved right there and possible forced somebody out at the least. it worked out for you, but 7 handed, 3 already in, i would rather get all my money in pf.

Were not ITM yet. Not even at FT
My thinking here is that -with the knowledge I had from all players- is that I was up against at least AA or KK, but since I´m last to act before flop I call with any2 for 6K inte a 40K pot. I would have done, and always will do, the same any time. My stack was 70K so it wasnt like I comitted myself with that call. Looking at QQ was just a bonus, but I would have folded to any bet on the flop. Now my tough choice was on the turn in my opinion. Thats where I screwed up I think.
Of course I SHOULD have looked at my cards preflop, but as I said, I still wouldnt have shoved when suspecting at least KK with one of the enemies. Preflop, it really didnt matter what cards I had.
At the final table, I played the same hand, in the same position, completely around.. and pushed into one raiser. Got called and lost to AK.

 

[The Shrog]

$200 buyin, NLT Freeze. 80 ppl in the game. ITM at FT (10 player tables)

Were not ITM yet. Not even at FT

So....which is it?

I call with any2 for 6K inte a 40K pot

My stack was 70K so it wasnt like I comitted myself with that call.

You're going to throw 10% of your stack into a pot playing blind? I understand you're all about the pot odds you're getting, but I can't see this being a smart play.

 

[pokerking123]

that's a very nice hand but you got really lucky onthe river..why were you playing blind in the begining?

 

[KillerBoo]

Just want to share a nice litte hand from sunday´s live game.
$200 buyin, NLT Freeze. 80 ppl in the game. ITM at FT (10 player tables)
bla bla bla ..... and we were 7 players seated at the table. (15 left in the tourney).

Where: ITM at FT means.. Money to FT-players
Where: (15 left in the tourney) means.. That there are 15 players left in hte tourney

 

[KillerBoo]

that's a very nice hand but you got really lucky onthe river..why were you playing blind in the begining?

I played them blind because I knew I was going to call no matter what the cards were. The only hand I would have played different would have been AA.

The thing is that up until now EVERYbody had folded to even a min raise. Now all of a sudden, there was a raise, a reraise AND a call... Oc if another player had pushed preflop, instead of just that min raise, I would have folded. But now, 6K for 40K. I´d call that with any2, and raised it only with AA.
And yes, I know I got extremely lucky, but the post wasnt really to say "Hey look how well I played the hand" but rather "Played it poorly and got lucky with a nice hand" And since it was a very strangely played hand I just posted it to share a fun moment

 

[KillerBoo]

Shrog:
What would you have done then? Except for the obvious, to look at the cards. Which I only neglected cos I was gonna call it no matter the cards. But you mean I should have looked, and pushed? Almost KNOWING im up against aces?
Or do you suggest look and fold? That´s what I based my call on. I wanted to see a cheap flop with a half ok hand. I got to see the flop, and I got to see the turn too.. The call on turn is baaaaaaad, I agree. But preflop I don´t think it´s a lousy call since I do put him on AA or KK. The turn call would have been the place to fold.. when I hit my set I would still be drawing to a one outer if he has the hand I put him on preflop.

 

[The Shrog]

Ok, I was just a little misled by the opening, but that said...

My immediate thought is to disagree with you completely, and say that you need to get your stack in here. On the other hand, I don't play live tournaments that much, and if you had that strong of a read on a certain players and this bet screamed AA/KK, I think that calling almost 10% of your stack off to essentially set mine is not a good play. What are you doing on a 10xx rainbow board? An Axx board? From what you've said, it sounds like you've pegged the guy on one of these monsters...if you had looked at your cards, I know it sounds weak, but if you are that SURE that these are the ONLY possible holdings for this opponent, I'd prefer a fold.

 

[viking999]

From what you've said, it sounds like you've pegged the guy on one of these monsters...if you had looked at your cards, I know it sounds weak, but if you are that SURE that these are the ONLY possible holdings for this opponent, I'd prefer a fold.

I much prefer a call to a fold, but only if he's truly set mining. He's getting about 7:1 to call, which is about right to go set mining even without implied odds. With any implied odds, it's pretty much a no brainer that he can't fold. I'd shove, because the min-raiser doesn't have much left, and even if he has an overpair, you're getting just over 3:1 on a shove (costs 16000 to win 50000), assuming everyone else folds. That is almost enough pot odds to go up against an overpair. But, I honestly don't think calling is that bad, if you're that certain you're up against a bigger pair.

EDIT: On calling with unseen cards, I think that was a huge mistake. I don't think you're right to call there with a hand like 72 or even A2. I'd only be calling with pocket pairs, suited connectors, or two very big cards (maybe only AK). You're getting good odds, but you need to be playing hands that play well in multiway pots. I wouldn't be playing ace-rag or two medium-high cards because you may well be double dominated.

 

[KillerBoo]

I much prefer a call to a fold, but only if he's truly set mining. He's getting about 7:1 to call, which is about right to go set mining even without implied odds. With any implied odds, it's pretty much a no brainer that he can't fold. I'd shove, because the min-raiser doesn't have much left, and even if he has an overpair, you're getting just over 3:1 on a shove (costs 16000 to win 50000), assuming everyone else folds. That is almost enough pot odds to go up against an overpair. But, I honestly don't think calling is that bad, if you're that certain you're up against a bigger pair.

EDIT: On calling with unseen cards, I think that was a huge mistake. I don't think you're right to call there with a hand like 72 or even A2. I'd only be calling with pocket pairs, suited connectors, or two very big cards (maybe only AK). You're getting good odds, but you need to be playing hands that play well in multiway pots. I wouldn't be playing ace-rag or two medium-high cards because you may well be double dominated.

Thank you! Your reasoning is about my own up until the added editing. I called with unseen cards, that is obviously any2. Had i been an all in from the reraiser I´d have looked, and instafolded. My read was that he had AA or KK and all I wanted was a cheap flop to make a made hand or huge draw. I would have folded to a bet on the flop after checking my cards. The worst I could have seen in the hole would have been a K or an Ace, and would have thrown them to a bet as well. My whole point and idea with the call was to crack aces and for that prize, I would have made a go with 2-7.
I´m glad at least someone sees the point of a call, and the reason for it as well
That said, I know it was far from a good play. In fact, my play on turn would probably top any list of no-no´s With the preflop call w/o seeing the cards as a good runner up. Note, not the call itself, but the call without seeing the cards can never be EV plus.. in any other situation than something like that one. I´m ready to fold on flop and I know what it will cost me if I do make a call with a draw.