How wrong am I here?

[dj11]

The results were not happy,

pokerstars Game #11452036742: Tournament #56991791, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/08/12 - 17:00:00 (ET)
Table '56991791 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Irexes (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: list73 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: dj13 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: killer3333 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: joker131 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: klitkat (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: Freakakanus (1500 in chips)
list73: posts small blind 10
dj13: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dj13 [Kc Jh]
killer3333: folds
joker131: folds
dj13 said, "Hard to get 2 sunday mil, screens in, this one, and the CC window...."
klitkat: folds
Freakakanus: calls 20
Irexes has timed out
Irexes: folds
Irexes is sitting out
list73: calls 10
dj13: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qd Ad Tc]
list73: bets 60
dj13: raises 80 to 140
Freakakanus: calls 140
list73: folds
*** TURN *** [Qd Ad Tc] [Qc]
dj13: bets 1340 and is all-in
Freakakanus: calls 1340 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Qd Ad Tc Qc] [Ts]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dj13: shows [Kc Jh] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Freakakanus: shows [Js Qs] (a full house, Queens full of Tens)
Freakakanus collected 3080 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3080 | Rake 0
Board [Qd Ad Tc Qc Ts]
Seat 1: Irexes (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: list73 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: dj13 (big blind) showed [Kc Jh] and lost with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 5: killer3333 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: joker131 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: klitkat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Freakakanus showed [Js Qs] and won (3080) with a full house, Queens full of Tens



I have a hard time here thinking I was wrong, I did not want to give freak any opportunity to catch a flush or straight.

The donk calls all his chips here!!!!! lol.

 

[Debi]

Should have raised more after the flop. It was a sweet flop for you - but I would have wanted to run him out right away if I could lol.

 

[Shandy]

well u had approximately an 80% of winning when the chips when in on the turn, freak had 10 outs, one of which you held, which lowered his chances even more- nothing you can do- just poker.

 

[aliengenius]

You are so so so wrong.... but only because you are being results oriented by asking "was I wrong?" .

 

[Freakakanus]

calling me a donk when I hold trip q's is a bit interesting........ yes I got lucky to your flopped straight but your flop bet was not enough to push me of my draw and pair......

 

[dj11]

You are so so so wrong.... but only because you are being results oriented by asking "was I wrong?" .

Actually my decision to put it on the line is not a problem here, for me anyway. Perhaps the way I went about it was wrong.

list raised, I reraised, freak calls, list folds, at which point the turn has to be seen, and at that point, (before the turn, freak is calling a raised and reraised pot with only a pair, and a nice str8 draw) I'm thinking I can't let him see a flush cheap. Turns out he is not there for the flush.

I've got the feeling he would have called any reraise I would have made post flop.

 

[Freakakanus]

Actually my decision to put it on the line is not a problem here, for me anyway. Perhaps the way I went about it was wrong.

list raised, I reraised, freak calls, list folds, at which point the turn has to be seen, and at that point, (before the turn, freak is calling a raised and reraised pot with only a pair, and a nice str8 draw) I'm thinking I can't let him see a flush cheap. Turns out he is not there for the flush.

I've got the feeling he would have called any reraise I would have made post flop.

incorrect sir.....not any reraise

 

[dj11]

calling me a donk when I hold trip q's is a bit interesting........ yes I got lucky to your flopped straight but your flop bet was not enough to push me of my draw and pair......

You know that was a comment made in a tilted jest.

 

[aliengenius]

Middle pair and a gut shot with possible tainted outs is hardly a "nice" draw.

 

[dj11]

After I am now cooled down I think my mistake was the size of my reraise on the flop. it was a 2+x reraise, which I watch you folks do often. Oddly just earlier I posted a revelation about how a raise like that early does not have the same effect as it would later. So, 3x at least, maybe more, but at what point does it start looking like a blatant steal?

Short term to long term memory issue?

 

[amygrantfan]

i think raising more would have been good, but you just never know. poker is not a game of simple rules to follow

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

calling me a donk when I hold trip q's is a bit interesting........ yes I got lucky to your flopped straight but your flop bet was not enough to push me of my draw and pair......

Do you not think your call of a flop bet and raise with middle pair and a gutshot on an AQT 2-flush board was weak? Seriously?

dj, I raise a little more on the flop simply because I want to swell the pot given that it's an action flop, and a lot of cards can potentially either kill our action or outdraw us on the turn (any K/J/diamond, maybe even A/Q/T).

 

[dj11]

OK, my reraise was a tad weak, I had flopped a made hand. It was not a precisely calculated reraise partly because of the overall implications of the GvG thing. I know that sounds like a cop out, and I won't do it again. Next time I'll wear a wig and play for the girls team.

 

[joeeagles]

OK, my reraise was a tad weak, I had flopped a made hand.

I don't think it was exactly weak. You flopped the nuts, I'm getting the impression you're thinking you should of raised enough to make him fold.

First of all your raise was already enough to make middle pair with a gutshot fold (considering it had tainted outs like AG said), second of all your goal is to get the pot bigger, not make him fold. Its all about making opponents draw incorrectly, which you did. You lost to runner runner, which happens less than 1% of the time.

Don't blame the amount you reraised, you got him to make a terrible call on the flop, which means you got the job done. Just think for a minute here. Lets say they both fold to your reraise. Aren't you going to be questioning yourself now, that maybe with the nuts you shouldn't have raised this flop at all? AG is right, if you have any doubts you're being results oriented. You played this correctly.

The rest is due to online poker being rigged (oops, I meant variance, silly me ).

 

[Freakakanus]

Do you not think your call of a flop bet and raise with middle pair and a gutshot on an AQT 2-flush board was weak? Seriously?

Not today I don't ....... label me weak, don't particularly care.... won enough CC events to justify my donkey-ness.

 

[lightning36]

It's difficult for me to call much of anything seriously weak anymore. Of course, seeing the way I played today, that is understandable.

We're playing a game in which deception is a major part. We also know that sometimes, usually when we least expect it (or at Full Tilt and poker stars -- where we ALWAYS expect it), the exact wrong "lucky" card appears. Trying to build the pot almost always seems to get rewarded with allowing someone to catch up and then catch the magic card(s).

Personally, I thought the post-flop raise could have been bigger. Who knows, though, how big it would have had to have been to make Freak fold.

This was just one of those plays. We've all had them happen. Nothing you can do.

btw -- This reminds me of the laughs I get from the chat of some poker bloggers. They brag about stealing, re-stealing and bluffing, then call people donkeys and idiots when their raises on legitimate hands are not respected -- and someone hits a lucky card.

 

[TakenCajun]

The results were not happy,

PokerStars Game #11452036742: Tournament #56991791, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/08/12 - 17:00:00 (ET)
Table '56991791 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Irexes (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: list73 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: dj13 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: killer3333 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: joker131 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: klitkat (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: Freakakanus (1500 in chips)
list73: posts small blind 10
dj13: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dj13 [Kc Jh]
killer3333: folds
joker131: folds
dj13 said, "Hard to get 2 sunday mil, screens in, this one, and the CC window...."
klitkat: folds
Freakakanus: calls 20
Irexes has timed out
Irexes: folds
Irexes is sitting out
list73: calls 10
dj13: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qd Ad Tc]
list73: bets 60
dj13: raises 80 to 140
Freakakanus: calls 140
list73: folds
*** TURN *** [Qd Ad Tc] Q♣
dj13: bets 1340 and is all-in
Freakakanus: calls 1340 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Qd Ad Tc Qc] [Ts]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dj13: shows [Kc Jh] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Freakakanus: shows [Js Qs] (a full house, Queens full of Tens)
Freakakanus collected 3080 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3080 | Rake 0
Board [Qd Ad Tc Qc Ts]
Seat 1: Irexes (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: list73 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: dj13 (big blind) showed [Kc Jh] and lost with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 5: killer3333 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: joker131 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: klitkat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Freakakanus showed [Js Qs] and won (3080) with a full house, Queens full of Tens



I have a hard time here thinking I was wrong, I did not want to give freak any opportunity to catch a flush or straight.

The donk calls all his chips here!!!!! lol.

OUch you were beat bad... so sorry! SUCK OUTS...grrr gnarls me to death.

 

[dj11]

BTW freak, I'm over hating you.

 

[robwhufc]

I'd have raised to 60 pre-flop personally, to bump the pot up if I did hit.

Post flop it's tricky, you've clearly got a great hand which is well disguised, but you've got a tiny pot and a very uninviting board. Bet too much and you'll scare them away, and bet to little or not at all and it'll be unlikely someone will build the pot for you and pay you off with a weaker hand. I don't mind the flop min-raise, but i'd like to think i'd be making a bigger bet into a bigger pot if I was playing the hand (though the end result would have been the same of course ).

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Not today I don't ....... label me weak, don't particularly care.... won enough CC events to justify my donkey-ness.

Eh, why so defensive? I'm not attacking you as a poker player, just pointing out what I believe was a bad play and trying to help. Heck, I've made worse plays myself before (I could post a tilt-induced bubble hand from a SNG a few days ago that would make your skin crawl... but I won't ).

Here you have middle pair and a gutshot on a very co-ordinated board and you have a bet (who's going to lead with nothing on a flop like that into two players?) and a raise (who, knowing this, is going to raise on that flop with anything that QJ is remotely good against?). Not to mention that the initial bettor still has to act and could 3-bet it, in which case some saying about a creek and a lack of a paddle applies.

You're looking at less than 6 outs on average here, 4 Ks and 2 Qs. The J may not be good because of the straight possibilities. Even the Kd may not be good if someone is flushing, and any K may only be good for a split pot.

 

[robwhufc]

(who's going to lead with nothing on a flop like that into two players?)

LOL! (sorry List ).

 

[BigVito]

Certainly a beat. I don't really understand the push/overbet on the Turn Q. It's now a paired board, which makes your flopped straight vulnerable. The pot is now around T$360 and you shove in $1340 in. Just not sure if I want to play a huge pot with a flush draw and a possible FH staring back at me.

 

[daxter70]

and this man KNOWS what he is talking about!!!!!!!

 

[dj11]

Certainly a beat. I don't really understand the push/overbet on the Turn Q. It's now a paired board, which makes your flopped straight vulnerable. The pot is now around T$360 and you shove in $1340 in. Just not sure if I want to play a huge pot with a flush draw and a possible FH staring back at me.

Which is exactly why I shoved, I did not want anyone to beat me cheaply. From his POV it might certainly look like a flush draw steal.

My real guess is that Freak has some sort of read on me from some other place. This is the first hand of this tourney, so nothing he has would be absolutely current. Any stats he may have on me are so limited as to be unreliable. We have not played many hands together, certainly under 100.

A PF raise with KJo in the BB? Maybe, but IMO unnecessary here, I know these guys and gals are good, and with the talk recently about the steal from the BB they would generally ignore it. JKo is not one of my favorite hands from any positions. Well maybe some positions (LMFAOFOF). Freak has the QJ and that is always worth looking at, so he very well might have called a BB raise. We have no idea what list had, my guess here is he had nothing of consequence and tried an early steal with his flop raise.

If I made a mistake it was in the size of my reraise.

Other than that Freak took a 'wild hare up his butt' chance and got tickled.
Wild hares do that on occasion.

I was bummed for quite a while because it was the first hand of the tourney, and that is always an unfun way to exit. I got over it.
---------

This hand deserves a better laugh, here is my attempt;

My hand, JKo, needed help, but still needed to be played with. I needed help, fast! Help came immediately, hard and straight!

 

[BigVito]

I like your line up until the turn. You're out of position with a marginal hand so why build the pot PF? I think you were dead on there. The flop raise could have been bigger but you flopped the nuts, you want some action but the flush draw makes it a bit tougher to make a big kill on the hand. I like that bet.

The turn? Pretty much any hand that will call $300 there is gonna call the all in. Not sure what the right play would have been, but it looks like it's pretty early in the tourney. Your hand is vulnerable to a FH. So you want to make some coin, but you still want to surive.

I think a 1/2 to 3/4 pot bet on the turn is the better play. I prefer the 3/4. It gives you the right pot size to get in all in on the river without having to overbet while still not giving the right odds for a flush draw to chase. It also leaves you T$1000+ if a bad card hits the river. You can get away from the hand but if the card doesn't hit, you get the trips or 2 pair hands all in with a proper sized river bet.