Good fold or bad fold?

[redmast]

Maybe it was the A10, he said. If he's having a good stack is not made the final table. So he played carelessly, not very carefully and crazy. It turns out that your fold was wasted. On the other hand, not knowing his cards, you can assume other than a pair of premium and another 33 , ApKp. Since you took the 4th placet, hat is just two draws. In printsepe you did the right thing.

 

[teepack]

I don't have a problem with the fold, but those kinds of decisions really become player specific in my opinion. If you have reason to believe this guy is a bit of a maniac, I think you call. But if you think he is a good player and has you beat, then you fold and live for another day. I don't think it's impossible he had J-10 suited or pocket Js or pocket 10s.

Like Clint Eastwood said in Dirty Harry, you have to ask yourself, Do you feel lucky, punk?

Since you wound up 4th, I would say you made the right decision.

 

[vassiriki]

Instinct tells me that it was a bad fold there, if this player had AA or KK he would have 4 bet you preflop, there is no reason to wait to the flop and then push. I think he had AJ or A10 there, Your flop bet was just small enough it looked like you could have AK or AQ there and just missed a lot, But that same hand could have come from him especially if he was suited and had a draw. Im thinking AQ or AK w the flush draw or AJ honestly. Im pretty decent about telling what they have, so thats what i have to go with from my intuition, but I didnt know any of his tendencies, but i REALLY doubt he had JJ, KK or AA there. I dunno if you would have ended up winning or losing there, but i doubt i could have made that lay down w so many chips already in the middle. I will say this tho, if you are going to get away from your hand there, you should check it to him and see what he does, it might give you a better read, but u could also let him catch the AorK if hes on something like that. I doubt im getting off the hand, but that would be the correct bet if you want to fold right there. I would have to call, Im betting he had AJ or A10. I don't think he was lying very much. And im guessing this buy-in wasn't over 5$.

definitely this. if he had aa or kk he would probably go all in before flop. if he had jj's or 10s why would he go all in on the flop? there's a small chance you have a flush draw with 3 betting before the flop and on the flop and if he made trips why wouldn't he let be the aggressor? i mostly think he was right in what he said, he probably had a10 or maybe aj, he probably thought top pair top kicker and why not give it a go? at cheap buy-in tourneys people are way more loose than the expensive ones

 

[Pokerencyclopedia]

Villain call the 3-bet. lets assume he have good holding and he is not willing to play against a BB 3bet.
1. flop bet is aweful. Flop is a monster against QQ. (Axs, Kxs, JT, sets, ...) we just beat almost nothin (AJo, ATo, 99,..) will those hands call a 3bet of this size.
2 we hold the Qspade which is a good redraw card. check, call flop? your 3 bet size is a bit ambitious as any caller will be committed to pot and will be tempted to make a move. the only info you can get is that you are behind here.
as played folding is fine.... i would have call pre since he raise in EP and trap him until river.

 

[Pokerencyclopedia]

definitely this. if he had aa or kk he would probably go all in before flop. if he had jj's or 10s why would he go all in on the flop? there's a small chance you have a flush draw with 3 betting before the flop and on the flop and if he made trips why wouldn't he let be the aggressor? i mostly think he was right in what he said, he probably had a10 or maybe aj, he probably thought top pair top kicker and why not give it a go? at cheap buy-in tourneys people are way more loose than the expensive ones

Not at this level, i guess. he crushed 5000 entrants and we must respect any play.
so are we risking our tournament life for QQ in a spot like it without info about villain? I guess the answer is NO NO NO

 

[robertocoelho]

Difficult to evaluate the villain could be with KK, AK, AA or bluffing or flush and STRAIGHT, have to know the villain's profile is loose or tight, to say whether its fold was good, but anyway you went on in the tournament.

 

[tbnldashik]

It was flush draw or bluf. 100%...Good fold

 

[j t]

basically going all in is when you should feel like its a good fold. def if the stakes are high!!

 

[eddyrj]

I not enjoyed the fold!!!!
you had any villain information ? I even think he hit something on that board , but I think you were at the front. He entou limp at the beginning of the table and only gave call your raise. You could have used the check / raise strategy.

 

[Poker Orifice]

STUPID fold !!!

If he had AA, KK, QQ (unlikely, but happens), JJ or AK - he would re-pop to your 3-bet pre-flop.

I exclude J-10, J-3 and 3-3, because he does not have pot odds to call your 3-bet, given the effective stack !

The only "trappy" hand he may have, is 10-10.

But with 10-10, it would be STUPID to raise with a well hidden set. He would call, in order to gain more future bets from you.

So, I put him on A-J, K-J or A-10.

Given the "action flops" you can see in all poker rooms, it is a "tradition" to arrange a flop with top-pair-top-kicker against overpair - this increases action and earns more rake for the casino at cash tables, and it shortens the tournaments (and causes players to register for the next ones)...

Your fold with an overpair on this flop was insane.

LOL
You tell the guy its a 'stupid fold' but then you follow it up with a far more ridiculous comment > Given the "action flops" you can see in all poker rooms, it is a "tradition" to arrange a flop with top-pair-top-kicker against overpair - this increases action and earns more rake for the casino at cash tables, and it shortens the tournaments (and causes players to register for the next ones)


This ^ needs to be moved to the rigtard thread!

 

[Poker Orifice]

munchie

He even has a blocker to the flush draw ! So, if the opponent has A-x spades - he has 8 outs only for flush and 3 outs on the overcard - 11 outs.

However, pushing allin just on a draw (even if it is the nut draw) is a style of coinflippers - not of the solid players who know about pot odds and calculating outs...

BUT if he 'coinflipper' has fold equity, then perhaps it's also a play made by 'solid players who know what the f#@k they're doing' ?

 

[milencenov]

LOL
You tell the guy its a 'stupid fold' but then you follow it up with a far more ridiculous comment > Given the "action flops" you can see in all poker rooms, it is a "tradition" to arrange a flop with top-pair-top-kicker against overpair - this increases action and earns more rake for the casino at cash tables, and it shortens the tournaments (and causes players to register for the next ones)


This ^ needs to be moved to the rigtard thread!

LOL

you like to offend people and their opinions

BTW - you could express your own one instead of just offending the opinion of someone else

 

[andyt5303]

Real sick spot, I think if I was in that position I'd fold too but whether or not that's correct I'm not sure...

 

[milencenov]

BUT if he 'coinflipper' has fold equity, then perhaps it's also a play made by 'solid players who know what the f#@k they're doing' ?

Oh, yes, the favourite excuse of donkeys - fold equity !!!

And when a donkey goes allin with 35% chance to hit his flush, he then says "It was a SEMI bluff !!!"

Well, if one has 35% chance, then he is 65% bluffing - so it is NOT a semi bluff (semi means "half", for the record).

Oh, you can be at the button with 7-2 You can go allin.
Wow - you have fold equity !!!
And I call with AK in the BB.

Your chance is 31% - almost like OESD, and just a few % below flush draw...

Yet - so many donks go allin on OESD or flush draw, but they will never try 7-2 against AK...



Fold equity depends on lots of factors. And you know - fold equity descreases, if your opponent is holding a strong hand.

BTW - the question in this thread is from a similar situation.

And I think that Villain used "fold equity" to try to bluff Hero out of the pot.
Hero could have called this.

 

[ribbybruno]

I believe Villain told the truth when said he had A10. Villain only called min raise pre-flop. If Villain had AA, KK , QQ , JJ or even 10 10 imo a raise would have been coming.

I don't like the min-raise here with QQ giving any player odds to call. At least 3-bet to make it harder for opponents. Most of the time if the 3-bet is called or raised then you know that Villain is strong.

Good job on the 4th place finish!

 

[dan5379]

In my opinion, you made the correct lay down. Well done for getting that far in such a big field. Be lucky! From bonnie Scotland - LoL

 

[antonio4c]

I think it was a good fold when you have to go for ALL

 

[PricaC]

I really can't understand why some peoples say if the opponent had AA or KK he should it move all-in pre-flop. Why to make that move at this stage when only 0.5% of the players are still in the game and you have more than 34BB ? You should only make a 4BET but he didn't made that so his 2BB bet from his position at table make me believe he have some speculative hands only like AT, AJ, KQ or KJ. I think your mistake was that 1/2 pot raise. A better solution in that case was check-raise all-in ... in that way you put pressure on the opponent not him on you.

 

[Gh0stL]

I think bad fold because in preflop only rice 2BB, you re-raice and the villan call, is probably he had AK, AQ, AJ, AT, when you raice 1/2 the pot he go all-in because he thinks you bluff. I think that.

 

[antonis32123]

It all depends on the player's play style . Before this hand how much was he raising ,there was a variety on his bets ,other times limping, other times 2xBB,3xBB , is he a tight aggressive , a maniac, has he been bluffing , there are some questions to be answered...

But on general, having made the 3bet, 3x his bet 42000 , then , I, personally , would have made a bigger continuation bet not 1/2 , but 3/4 or 100%of the pot and on the turn I would have gone all in . I think he might have AJ,kj or even a draw .

The chpice for me woud have been not to fold . I have been in a position like this and most of the times I won.

 

[gustavo2104]

Difficult decision, I had done call, but I believe that he at least had a good project, or perhaps JJ. But as you reach to the final table, was definitely a good fold

 

[demacedo6]

I don't like the fold in this situation. I think the villain can do this with straight draw , flush draw , Jx. So i call.

 

[Jack Leaff]

I think that is a bad fold

On the flop you have to call 152.450 chips (allin) to win 492.500.
You have 31% of pot odds. It means that you have to be good at least 1/3 of the time.
Against the range that you are losing (TT, JJ, AA, KK) you are on a bad spot. But these hands has less combos (24 combination of hands) than the hands that you are winning (AJo, AJs, KJs, KJo, QJs, QJo, AKss, AQss, KQo), hands that have a pair or are playing draws aggressively. There are 66 combos of these hands.
Considering all the range that he could have, even that he could have 33 and J10 (33, TT, JJ, KK, AA, J10o, J10s, QJs, KJs, AJs, KQs, AQss, AKss, KQo KJo, QJo, AJo) you would have 49,69% of equity.
Another thing to take in consideration is that I think that he would probably go allin preflop with AA and KK, so we can exclude these from his range. I don't think that he has 33 either, J10 is another hand that you are losing but, it's less likely that he would call a 3bet preflop.
He could have JJ, and 1010, but he could also have AJ, KJ, KQ, QJ, hands that has top pair and are afraid of draws. There are more hands that you are winning than hands that you are losing.
I see a lot of players doing this: they call 3bet with a hand like AJ, hit a pair and overplays by going allin no matter what the board is.
Don't be afraid of monsters. By math and taking the profile and tendencies of the villain in consideration (I think you had some reads of him) I think this is a call.

 

[PLAYFUL1]

Playful says this is a very good fold and I know that this was costly but live to play a better hand

 

[Jim Brown]

STUPID fold !!!

If he had AA, KK, QQ (unlikely, but happens), JJ or AK - he would re-pop to your 3-bet pre-flop.

I exclude J-10, J-3 and 3-3, because he does not have pot odds to call your 3-bet, given the effective stack !

The only "trappy" hand he may have, is 10-10.

But with 10-10, it would be STUPID to raise with a well hidden set. He would call, in order to gain more future bets from you.

So, I put him on A-J, K-J or A-10.

Given the "action flops" you can see in all poker rooms, it is a "tradition" to arrange a flop with top-pair-top-kicker against overpair - this increases action and earns more rake for the casino at cash tables, and it shortens the tournaments (and causes players to register for the next ones)...

Your fold with an overpair on this flop was insane.

not "STUPID fold !!!", but I would call. coolers happen and I think Hero is probably ahead.

Agree KK+ 4bet pre so discounting those
JJ-QQ, AK may flat or 4bet, depends on villain

On the flop any hand ahead of hero has little reason to raise.

Then the quoted reponse starts to go off the rails. Villain can't have JT or 33 but then "put him on AJ, KJ, or AT" sounds like you're just making up a few hands to justify yourself. Put the entire range in and see the equities.

And avoid omg-rigged territory.

Some good stuff and some wtf

I would call. Started to type some more then read the repsonse from Jack Leaff. Just +1 to that.