$Freeroll NLHE: How would you play 88 on a bubble time (10 satellite seats)?

[rodelzki]

$Freeroll NL HE: How would you play 88 on a bubble time (10 satellite seats)?

There were 11 players left and I was below stack size average. The 10 lucky players in this tourney will play in the FPT/APPT-CEBU MEGA SATELLITE tomorrow on POKERSTARS. It was “BUBBLE-TIME. Prior to this hand, I threw off my A8o at middle position and a KJo at the button. Didn’t have enough courage to make BLINDs steal with my Ax and unsuited KJ. Now the opportunity to go for a raise or shove finally came.

So how would you play this hand?

Condition: Bubble time
Table condition: Tight and not much Blind steal
Blinds = 1500/3000 ante = 300

PokerStars Game #34912751935: Tournament #206117397, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (1500/3000) - 2009/11/04 12:46:22 ET
Table '206117397 33' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: rodelzki (25230 in chips)
Seat 3: Lee_Grane88 (25537 in chips)
Seat 4: gelmarm1 (49224 in chips)
Seat 6: kenjho1130 (78442 in chips)
Seat 8: tantandan (24034 in chips)
Seat 9: mobil14 (38440 in chips)
rodelzki: posts the ante 300
Lee_Grane88: posts the ante 300
gelmarm1: posts the ante 300
kenjho1130: posts the ante 300
tantandan: posts the ante 300
mobil14: posts the ante 300
mobil14: posts small blind 1500
rodelzki: posts big blind 3000

 

[c9h13no3]

I hear having the rest of the hand history is helpful...

 

[Jillychemung]

Do you have the stack sizes from the other table?? Any reads for the other players on your table? This info is critical to your decision.

 

[rodelzki]

Do you have the stack sizes from the other table?? Any reads for the other players on your table? This info is critical to your decision.

Average stack size of the other table was 40,000

 

[rodelzki]

I hear having the rest of the hand history is helpful...

This is for the purpose of gathering "thoughts" of other players and see what actually is in their minds when they face a situation such as this one I had.

The rest of the preflop info would be posted as soon as the others have given their thoughts on this.

thanks

 

[c9h13no3]

Are we UTG or in the BB? Looks like we're in the BB to me. Seriously, post the rest of the preflop info, this is retarded.

 

[Jillychemung]

Are we UTG or in the BB? Looks like we're in the BB to me. Seriously, post the rest of the preflop info, this is retarded.

AAARRRRGGGHHH yep I read the HH wrong and OP is indeed in the BB so I'll +100 what C9 says here. Please post the action from UTG up to the point that you have to make a decision.

 

[rodelzki]

Condition: Bubble time
Table condition: Tight and not much Blind steal
Blinds = 1500/3000 ante = 300

Ave. stack size of the other table = 40K

Seat 1: rodelzki (25230 in chips) (BB)
Seat 3: Lee_Grane88 (25537 in chips) (UTG)
Seat 4: gelmarm1 (49224 in chips) (UTG+1)
Seat 6: kenjho1130 (78442 in chips) (CO)
Seat 8: tantandan (24034 in chips) (DB)
Seat 9: mobil14 (38440 in chips) (SB)
rodelzki: posts the ante 300
rodelzki: posts the ante 300
Lee_Grane88: posts the ante 300
gelmarm1: posts the ante 300
kenjho1130: posts the ante 300
tantandan: posts the ante 300
mobil14: posts the ante 300
mobil14: posts small blind 1500
rodelzki: posts big blind 3000

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to rodelzki [8d 8h]
Lee_Grane88: folds (UTG)
gelmarm1: folds (UTG+1)
kenjho1130: raises 3000 to 6000 (CO)
tantandan: folds (DB)
mobil14: folds

 

[Jillychemung]

Ok MUCH MUCH better HH posted here.

Unless you have seen this big stack fold a few times to a 3-bet then fold here. With the 'tight' read I expect that the big stack will almost always have at least 2 overs if not a larger pocket pair therefore at best you are flipping and I expect the big stack to be calling any shove here from a small stack. Since you can still see a few more orbits. fold and then find a spot to get it AI where you are the initial aggressor.

 

[shinedown.45]

Ok MUCH MUCH better HH posted here.

Unless you have seen this big stack fold a few times to a 3-bet then fold here. With the 'tight' read I expect that the big stack will almost always have at least 2 overs if not a larger pocket pair therefore at best you are flipping and I expect the big stack to be calling any shove here from a small stack. Since you can still see a few more orbits. fold and then find a spot to get it AI where you are the initial aggressor.

So we have a min-raise, we are in the BB with 3000 chips in the pot and it costs us 3000 into a 12k pot with over 4-1 odds on our money while holding a pocket pair, and you suggest to fold?

I would push this almost immediately, our M is 4 and this may be the best hand we'll see for awhile.

 

[c9h13no3]

I cram it in here, we still have decent fold equity. We're trying to go deep, not sneak into the $.

 

[Jillychemung]

There were 11 players left and ...The 10 lucky players in this tourney will play in the FPT/APPT-CEBU MEGA SATELLITE tomorrow

I would push this almost immediately, our M is 4 and this may be the best hand we'll see for awhile.

One more player to bust and he's one of the 10 winners. W/O a read these minraises are just as likely bait to get a short stack to shove as they are a donk big stack play. In a standard tournament, absolutely yes this is an easy shove but in a satellite I want to be the one forcing the action from a small stack.

 

[OzExorcist]

Satellite and one elimination from everyone getting a seat = I probably fold this. It's only a small increase in our stack if the villain folds and we're flipping at best if we get called.

 

[dave28]

decision made : fold

 

[sheepy10]

with average stacksize at 40k, i m folding here,

people ae scared of losing at this stage, you only need to survive one player, you have a full orbit before the next round of blinds, chances are it ll be over before the next blinds reach you

 

[Aaronftw]

To me min raising this late in the tourney from that position is screaming please push over me. You said they dont steal much so its alot less likely hes stealing from such a position, he wants action. Im guessing you pushed he called and had a higher PP or AK something along those lines. Yes your M states you must push, but knowing the table plays into this so much as well, you stated it yourself.

 

[c9h13no3]

I cram it in here, we still have decent fold equity. We're trying to go deep, not sneak into the $.

I obviously didn't read the satellite part in the title. And the drastic change in the payout structure means a drastic change in my recommended action. This looks like an easy fold.

And truth be told, an M of 4 in a satty isn't all that bad when you're close to the bubble. What matters the most is the difference between your stack, and the shortest stack at the table.

 

[rodelzki]

Just to finish this hand off I posted last Friday. When kenjo1130 at CO raised to 2xBB (6,000) I read him to be drawing in for some action from ranges AT - AK. So if my read was correct he would yet have to hit a pair and still I am ahead. So as I was debating this with myself what to do I immediately checked the actions at the other table (o this is the advantage of playing poker on-line). The shortest stacks on the other table have just tripled up almost evening up the individual chip counts of that table. As this developed I decided to shove all my chips and put my tournament life with my medium pair.

By just calling his raise I would be left with 15,930 chips assuming that I fold my hand afterwards. And any bet or raise in the succeeding orbits with this stack size would be vulnerable to loose calls. What if any of the scare cards comes on the board, would I resist a c-bet from him by throwing all my remaining chips? So I was left with to choices, either fold or shove and I chose “shove”.

And here is the completion of the action:

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to rodelzki [8d 8h]
Lee_Grane88: folds
gelmarm1: folds
kenjho1130: raises 3000 to 6000
tantandan: folds
mobil14: folds
rodelzki: raises 18930 to 24930 and is all-in
kenjho1130: calls 18930
*** FLOP *** [3s 4d 5h]
*** TURN *** [3s 4d 5h] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [3s 4d 5h 8s] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rodelzki: shows [8d 8h] (four of a kind, Eights)
kenjho1130: shows [Qh As] (a pair of Eights)
rodelzki collected 53160 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 53160 | Rake 0
Board [3s 4d 5h 8s 8c]
Seat 1: rodelzki (big blind) showed [8d 8h] and won (53160) with four of a kind, Eights
Seat 3: Lee_Grane88 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: gelmarm1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: kenjho1130 showed [Qh As] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 8: tantandan (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: mobil14 (small blind) folded before Flop

 

[bandrade]

well done

 

[victordoors]

What´s your position in relation to the shortest stack??
Depending on that situation i think i would have folded as you did
Whatever your decision i hope you won it!!

 

[mrjohnson911]

I think because your the shortest stack the push is correct.. of course you cannot call either push or fold...

if there was a player at the other table say with 15000 chips left I would ve probably folded.... well done

 

[Tonky666]

fold or push position,depends on position,limpers and raises but id usually push here

 

[rcrocketman]

There's 11players left.... and 10get a seat.. right? So why would we be looking to play marginal hands to steal blinds with (in the first part of your post... mentioning you were considering stealing w Ax, etc.). You also mentioned you were below avg. stack size... but really how relevant is this? We're all playing for the same seat. What you need to be paying attention to is >> who are the shortstacks, what position are they in in relation to the blinds, when do the blinds increase next and how will that affect me.
When you consider raising to steal blinds in a satellite, don't even dare to do so unless you have a hand that you'd be happy to call with if they happen to shove back on you (never open//fold). It's worth far more to keep the chips you have than to donk off some while trying to steal (once you're deep in a satellite).
There are sooooooo many players who make grave errors in satellites (ie. the ones who keep playing hands as if 1st paysout more than 10th, the ones you see sitting on a bigstack who keep getting involved in many hands and putting themselves in volatile situations, with stacks going up & down like a yo-yo).
You just need one decent spot to shove to steal, and alot of the time you can be pretty patient while waiting for it.
Always be watching the play on the other tables as the bubble approaches.
Once blinds increase, play tight preflop.
You usually don't have to play very many hands to win a satellite. I've played many of them where I've only had to play two hands, doubling up on both of them ftw. Other times a few blind steals, win one alllin and you're itm.

 

[rcrocketman]

I cram it in here, we still have decent fold equity. We're trying to go deep, not sneak into the $.

it's the bubble of a satellite... one more out and we get paid.

I'd probably just fold in this spot. IF I chose to play it, I'd most likely do a stop n go, call pre and jam the flop.

 

[SystEmsuX]

Not sure if I'd get involved, but if you're the short stack a stop-n-go sounds good. More fold equity that way.