Donk Move or did I calculate my risk/reward correctly?

[BrentD22]

Stacks:
* UTG with 2045
* BTN with 2180
* SB with 2845
* BB with 6430

Blinds:
Site: full tilt poker
* * Dealt to BB:Q♦ 6♦
Preflop:
* * 1 players fold.
BTN raises to 2,180, and is all in
* * SB calls [2,030] Hero calls [1,880]
* * Total folds this street: 1
* * Potsize: 6540
Flop: 10♣ 4♦ 7♠
* * SB bets [665, and is all in] Hero calls [665]
* * SB shows : K♥ A♣ Hero shows : Q♦ 6♦ BTN shows : A♠ J♦
* * Potsize: 7870
Turn: 6♣
* * Potsize: 7870
River: 10♥
* * SB shows a pair of Tens
* * Hero shows two pair, Tens and Sixes Hero wins the side pot (1,330) with two pair, Tens and Sixes
* * BTN shows a pair of Tens Hero wins the main pot (6,540) with two pair, Tens and Sixes

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

OK I'm curious did I make the correct move with risk/reward thinking comes in here? If I don't win the hand I still have plenty of chips, I would be in 2nd still actually. If I win this hand I'll have a HUGE chip lead HU.

 

[Jillychemung]

Sorry I don't make the call here. Against 1 player, maybe, against 2 I don't. Your 6 is most likely your only live card, yeah it helps that they are suited but you don't have any ST8 possibilities with both cards. Even if the short stack is knocked out you will still be the chip leader.

 

[thecondiment]

I agree with jillychemung. if you lose the hand it will cost you almost half your chips. too expensive. fold and hold for a better chance.

 

[BrentD22]

Game stragedy wise it seemed to make sense, but I didn't factor in that I would still be chip leader with 3 people to go.

 

[Jillychemung]

Game stragedy wise it seemed to make sense, but I didn't factor in that I would still be chip leader with 3 people to go.

I think that may be a little hindsight results oriented thinking there. Did you truly believe that your Q may be good enough if the board came down Q high rainbow?

 

[Halibel]

am I missing something, or did you completely miss the flop and still play the hand after committing so much with it preflop?

donkey play imo
is this play money or real money :joyman:

 

[RichKo]

am I missing something, or did you completely miss the flop and still play the hand after committing so much with it preflop?

donkey play imo
is this play money or real money :joyman:

^^^^ Ding Ding Ding WINNER...eeeeeeeaaaaaawwwwwwwwww

 

[RogueRivered]

I'm not sure. If I understand pot odds correctly, it looks like a reasonable move unless you put either of your opponents on AA, KK, 66 or AQ. Anything else is giving you good enough odds (according to PokerStove). If you knew they both had Ax except AQ, then I think it's right. Of course, you don't know that, so you should discount the odds you're getting a bit. I think your call after the flop was right, since you're getting more than 10 to 1. It looks like SB is pot committed, so he could have anything. Button's M was around 5, so he could move with a lot of hands, although he didn't need to compared with the other stacks. I'm pretty sure I would have folded, but I don't always calculate the odds that carefully.

 

[terminator47]

I'm not sure why u even called an all-in preflop bet with Q-6 suited or not a very weak hand !! Or did I miss read something????
By the way I live in Vegas and Deal poker for a living (besides playing cash ring games and tournaments live all the time ) If that matters at all !!!

 

[thetrimguy]

i would have to say that was a bad call maybe with one person in possibly short stack would I make this call but with someone already calling 99% of the time you dont have a chance in hell even though you are stacked in this case i would have simply folded and let another person drop

 

[Double-A]

Fold Q6 pre-flop every time for the rest of your life...

 

[RichKo]

I'm not sure. If I understand pot odds correctly, it looks like a reasonable move unless you put either of your opponents on AA, KK, 66 or AQ. Anything else is giving you good enough odds (according to PokerStove). If you knew they both had Ax except AQ, then I think it's right. Of course, you don't know that, so you should discount the odds you're getting a bit. I think your call after the flop was right, since you're getting more than 10 to 1. It looks like SB is pot committed, so he could have anything. Button's M was around 5, so he could move with a lot of hands, although he didn't need to compared with the other stacks. I'm pretty sure I would have folded, but I don't always calculate the odds that carefully.

Is this a Joke??

 

[Halibel]

Fold Q6 pre-flop every time for the rest of your life...

don't tell him... I want a few games with him first.

 

[RogueRivered]

Is this a Joke??

No, not a joke. Do you have a problem with it? I just think it's a pretty close call odds wise. How much would have to be in the pot to win before you think it is reasonable? Sure, Q6s is a weak hand, but at some point the risk/reward must be worth it.

 

[RichKo]

No, not a joke. Do you have a problem with it? I just think it's a pretty close call odds wise. How much would have to be in the pot to win before you think it is reasonable? Sure, Q6s is a weak hand, but at some point the risk/reward must be worth it.

Maybe I misunderstood, but if I follow your logic, If im in a tourney and 9 players go all in, I should always call, with anything, just because I'm getting 9 to 1.!??! Gooooooooooooooo LOTTO

 

[Jillychemung]

I would not risk this with 2 AI unless I was only putting less than 10% of my stack at risk.

 

[RichKo]

I would not risk this with 2 AI unless I was only putting less than 10% of my stack at risk.

Now this^^^^makes sense.

 

[S93]

IF u can but bouth vilians on there exact hands then your pretty close to geting the right price to call here at 2,4-1 but thouse odds also drop cause your never folding to SB 600bet on the flop so your odds are infact worse.


Hand 0: 34.388% 34.28% 00.11% 469915 1455.00 { Qd6d }
Hand 1: 45.320% 44.05% 01.27% 603844 17380.50 { AcKh }
Hand 2: 20.292% 19.02% 01.27% 260779 17380.50 { AsJd }

Problem is u cant put them on there exact hand and there ranges have alot of hands in them that have u dominated and not nearly get the odds to call so i say fold here.
You be better off calling with 67 then Q6 here.
Hand 0: 28.592% 28.48% 00.11% 17920740522 70799500.00 { 7d6d }
Hand 1: 35.704% 34.15% 01.56% 21488213616 978932935.00 { 88+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 35.704% 34.15% 01.56% 21488213616 978932935.00 { 88+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 0: 26.044% 25.40% 00.76% 80771893 2409926.83 { Qd6d }
Hand 1: 30.856% 29.60% 01.38% 94147763 4402030.83 { 88+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 43.100% 41.95% 01.34% 133407519 4246549.33 { 88+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

Maybe I misunderstood, but if I follow your logic, If im in a tourney and 9 players go all in, I should always call, with anything, just because I'm getting 9 to 1.!??! Gooooooooooooooo LOTTO

Only if you consider your equity in the pot to be 10%. Then yes a call whould be the corect play based on the pot odds.

 

[RogueRivered]

Maybe I misunderstood, but if I follow your logic, If im in a tourney and 9 players go all in, I should always call, with anything, just because I'm getting 9 to 1.!??! Gooooooooooooooo LOTTO

No, all I'm saying is that it's OK to make a bet if the risk/reward is good enough. Going all-in against 9 players with anything isn't a good risk/reward because you're probably less than 9 to 1 to win. Now if you have AA, and 9 players go all-in, then yes, it's worth the risk even though you'll probably lose anyway. AA is only about 31% to win against 9 random hands. Each random hand is only about 7 to 8% to win.

IF u can but bouth vilians on there exact hands then your pretty close to geting the right price to call here at 2,4-1 but thouse odds also drop cause your never folding to SB 600bet on the flop so your odds are infact worse.


Hand 0: 34.388% 34.28% 00.11% 469915 1455.00 { Qd6d }
Hand 1: 45.320% 44.05% 01.27% 603844 17380.50 { AcKh }
Hand 2: 20.292% 19.02% 01.27% 260779 17380.50 { AsJd }

Problem is u cant put them on there exact hand and there ranges have alot of hands in them that have u dominated and not nearly get the odds to call so i say fold here.
You be better off calling with 67 then Q6 here.
Hand 0: 28.592% 28.48% 00.11% 17920740522 70799500.00 { 7d6d }
Hand 1: 35.704% 34.15% 01.56% 21488213616 978932935.00 { 88+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 35.704% 34.15% 01.56% 21488213616 978932935.00 { 88+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 0: 26.044% 25.40% 00.76% 80771893 2409926.83 { Qd6d }
Hand 1: 30.856% 29.60% 01.38% 94147763 4402030.83 { 88+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 43.100% 41.95% 01.34% 133407519 4246549.33 { 88+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }



Only if you consider your equity in the pot to be 10%. Then yes a call whould be the corect play based on the pot odds.

I like this post because it gives actual numbers, not just a gut reaction. Thank you.

Sindri, what program are you using for the calculations? I'm not sure how to enter hand ranges like 88+, KTo+, etc. into PokerStove.

 

[S93]

Sindri, what program are you using for the calculations? I'm not sure how to enter hand ranges like 88+, KTo+, etc. into PokerStove.

Im just using pokerstove. Check out this article https://www.cardschat.com/poker-stove.php ,it shows you how to use PokerStove more effectivly .

 

[RichKo]

I dont care what the odds are in this case, If you go all in preflop (which is pretty much what is happening here, already pot commited) with Q6s against 2 other opponents, its a donk move.

 

[RichKo]

I dont care what the odds are in this case, If you go all in preflop (which is pretty much what is happening here, already pot commited) with Q6s against 2 other opponents, its a donk move.

i think this was a loose pf call bro, that's still more than a fifth of your chips and you're most likely behind at least to one of them, probably both

Sorry, wasnt paying attention to your stack, but still...when alls said and done you risked actually more than a third of your chips on Q6...opinion still hasnt changed

 

[im all in man95]

Yea, I would not have made that call. Even though you did win, you could've folded and let another player be knocked out, putting you farther towards the money (if it mattered), or higher in the money. Plus, you would've still been chip leader...I wouldn't of called.

 

[godoy]

man, this move you could use to try eliminate one person if you're in a large advantage, but after somebody called before you, I wouldn't call it NEVER, Q6 is a trash hand

 

[BrentD22]

To all those that posted the math of call fold thank you! I've been trying to learn the in's and out's of ICM and when I quickly typed it in the the calculator it seemed to make sense that calling was correct, but I use a very basic ICM calculator that really doesn't give me enough info and typing it into pokerstove wasn't an option at the time.

To those that read the post and gave their gut reaction to seeing me call with Q6 as a really bad thing need to start looking at this game in a different way. I know this info wasn't part of my post, but these 2 guys where going all-in almost every hand for 10 hands straight. The split 2 pots when they both had the same hand J10 then A9. I assumed that I had 2 live cards (hoped) and I knew that vs. 2 players Q6 about a 2:1 dog. Against a lot of hands I'm exactly that a 2:1 dog (or close to it - except AQ, AA, KK, QQ). For those that just type only "donk move" and
criticize others for thinking outside the box of the card nazi's thinking open your mind to the game. I'm trying to learn ICM and understand what it all means.