Opponent played very tight, a)should I have made a bet on
the flop or not ?

b)after my check should I fold or call, I think
my opponent had JJ QQ KK AA or maybe
1010, only hand I beat is AK or another
strong ace

http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/282166

hmm you shouldnt choose between calling/folding imo.. If you call, what then? You'll have 5600 left and youre pot-comitted. So its actually fold or ALL-IN!

And I think its totally based on your opponent.. If you put him on those overpairs, then its an obvious fold. Againt AK its a push.

You should also consider that AA,KK,QQ,JJ,1010 are 5 hands, AK, AQ, AJ (?) are just three, so there are less hands you beat than hands that beat you..

therefore I would fold..

Maybe a push preflop would have made him fold his AK ? Or if he was playing reeeeally tight, you can also lay it down preflop I think..

Hi.
I think that there is only 2 ways : ALL IN or FOLD.
In this cas I prefereing all in early phase of tournament.

i dunno iff hes holdin an ace wich he is reppin then i think u would call or reraise to see what he does, if u reraise and he has big pocket pair 10s, then he'll call if he dont he'll reraise thats my experience

based on the data you presented i would fold if he is as tight as you say. also i agree with everyone who said callin shouldnt be an option ethier go all in or fold

this is definitely a fold. pocket 9s really arent that good, and with a such a strong raise, i am pretty sure you are beat. i mean even if you are not it would be a coin flip. so yeah, fold

My question for you is why did you re-pop his raise pre-flop to then check on a flop that is as harmless as it could be without catching a set. Personally, I feel a min re-raise pre-flop is almost always a signal for AA or KK as it is begging to be called. Also, it appears that you checked in this situation because your instinct is you are facing a better pair so don't try to talk yourself into making a mistake by staying in this hand.

fold...If he's got a ten you're drawing to two cards, same if he's got an overpair which is what I think he was representing. You're just not getting the right odds. Hell even if he does have ak you have to dodge six outs or possible runner runner straight. Obviously call if you put him on it but it's really not worth just a call there.

A small reraise from a tight player tends to be a monster so I would fold. Min 3 betting with AK would be a highly strange play so I wouldn't put them on AK.

Also, there is no point in light 4 betting 99 out of position. If you wanted to take a stab at this pot, you should have flatted the 3 bet and taken a stab on the flop. If they still show strength, you are likely beat without a set.

Originally Posted by m00

hmm you shouldnt choose between calling/folding imo.. If you call, what then? You'll have 5600 left and youre pot-comitted. So its actually fold or ALL-IN!

And I think its totally based on your opponent.. If you put him on those overpairs, then its an obvious fold. Againt AK its a push.

You should also consider that AA,KK,QQ,JJ,1010 are 5 hands, AK, AQ, AJ (?) are just three, so there are less hands you beat than hands that beat you..

therefore I would fold..

Maybe a push preflop would have made him fold his AK ? Or if he was playing reeeeally tight, you can also lay it down preflop I think..

Dude you're looking at it all wrong. There are more combinations of cards that make up AK, AQ, AJ then there are that make AA-TT. There are 16 ways to have AK while there are are only 6 ways to make AA. I think these numbers are right, Im sure someone will correct me if Im wrong.

So when you see 5 hands vs 3 hands you have to take into account all the different combinations that make up the hands in question to get the true probability of villain holding a hand that beats you or not. If you hold an ace then villains chances of holding AA are decreased because there are now less combinations that can make AA. Im pretty sure there are only 3 combinations that make AA if you hold 1 of the aces so chances are half.

you can only call if you're willing to go all in with your chips, and I wouldn't even call this hand, all in or fold on the flop for sure
=)

since you checked the flop, imo, you have to fold here. If you believe you could have gotten him to fold with a 3500 chip bet, you should have lead out, otherwise check/fold to any aggression.

Hi.

I think like Evil emperor and blackknite123, there're more chances to have AK than to have AA-TT and the posibility of having a pair or two pairs with AK are even more than have a trhee of a kind with AA-TT. Of course if you have AA-TT you can call almost every bet, but you better have a AA-QQ, because JJ-TT sometimes are really weak, specially agains a AK.

In addtion of that, obviously depends where are you in the table, because if you're the last one and no other one bets of course things are very different.

By the way, sometime i prefer not to rise with nice cards, it's stupid, but at least i keep my money more time.

Bye.
manalva

Fold and save your chips for a better position.. Let someone walk into your over pair.. Even with over cards your still drawing 2 cards yet ..

"Opponent played very tight"

That's what you say.
So what kind of hand would this player reraise you pre-flop?
If it's really a very thight player I really don't put him on AK, it's more likely that he has a big pocketpair. You can't call here. What do you think will happen at the turn? He can become more stronger. But even calling and then pushing on the turn will not work, he already has most of his chips in the pot, and showed strenght all the way. So fold.
Also raising 3BBs at UTG+1 with pocket 9s, well, I don't like that play.
After some years of playing, finally I realized, that position (and table image) is much more important than cards.

i think you must fold because if you call, you will be pot commited and after you must go allin.

So you fold

u gotta fold if he played that tight no matter how many outs u have he put u all in or fold .

Callin indeed should not be an option. If it was a freeroll I wouldve considered going for it, but otherwise no way.

at best your way ahead b/c he may have a underpair, or your you racing or your read was right and your way behind. i feel you have to go with your read win lose or draw.

The fact of the matter is your 2nd under the gun. You make a standard raise early postion. Holding 99 OOP isnt a desirable situation in my books with a super tight player in postion re - raising. This is a strong battleground for your opponent. He makes a small raise in postion with a marginal hand, even KQs because of position, wanting to add value to the pot. If he had a monster and wanted to induce that terrible re re raise you made pre flop he would have came back over the top again to add even more value maybe even get you all in. There are alot of hands you can put this guy on at the minute so making the pot huge with a hand your trying to protect begs for disaster.

By just calling you pose a greater threat to this guy. He cant bet with anything knowing hes only getting calling by a set or an overpair but because you made the second raise so weak he probably read you like a book and put you on a small pair also knowing a check raise was two risky in a big pot holding 77 88 99 JJ or QQ, therefore he knows he can bet and big if he wants. If you made the set he can still fold, theres too much out there and its a solid place to bet.The super tight player thrives on big pots when they need to throw a bluff. Never mind risking your stack for buttons go for glory .

1st of all, your 4bet sucks... what were you trying to do with that bet?
or you fold preflop, or call for value set (was just 2BB in a pot with 9,5BB and both of you have more than 25BB in your stacks) or shove, but a light 4bet is useless!!!
He flat call your light 4bet, so I think he probably was holding cowboys.
You showed enough strengh to push you if he was holding aces...
Probably he flat call with cowboys waiting a flop without A (because you can hold AK).
You had a chance to try to push him out of the pot because your scary 4bet, but after your check and his big bet you only had an option: FOLD

You almost have the right pot odds to call against JJ+,AKs,AKo (33.87%), but you don't want put your tourney life in a coin flip (as a better scenario).
You still have 25BB and you are third in your table after that hand (assuming you fold). In addition you have a 40BB guy in your left... your stack is perfect for a resteal against him.

IMO: Fold and wait for a better spot.

Originally Posted by yoru72

1st of all, your 4bet sucks... what were you trying to do with that bet?
or you fold preflop, or call for value set (was just 2BB in a pot with 9,5BB and both of you have more than 25BB in your stacks) or shove, but a light 4bet is useless!!!
He flat call your light 4bet, so I think he probably was holding cowboys.
You showed enough strengh to push you if he was holding aces...
Probably he flat call with cowboys waiting a flop without A (because you can hold AK).
You had a chance to try to push him out of the pot because your scary 4bet, but after your check and his big bet you only had an option: FOLD

You almost have the right pot odds to call against JJ+,AKs,AKo (33.87%), but you don't want put your tourney life in a coin flip (as a better scenario).
You still have 25BB and you are third in your table after that hand (assuming you fold). In addition you have a 40BB guy in your left... your stack is perfect for a resteal against him.

IMO: Fold and wait for a better spot.

Only this last sentence is valid. I can almost guarantee this guy was bluffing wether or not I need to explain to you lot is a different matter. The point is this guy is smart enough to know where he can bet to bluff if hes super tight. Again I stress the point that any good tight player is not passive and will bet even to represent a ten there knowing your arent holding one OOP after re re raises. You played it bad.

I would raise to 1200, he min raises me I call. pot is 4600. he can only bet around 2500, 3000 on a bluff because hes not trying to look suspicious. He is more prone to check with air with probability to complete his hand on the turn or the river because the pot is smaller. He bets 3200 into the pot making it 7800 total.

Were wud u go from here?

Maybe I got outplayed there by a player using his tight image but if I'm wrong and get involved with him I could lose a lot of chips.

I tend to stay away from confrontations with stacks that can hurt me.

So I weighed my options and folded.

I think I made a mistake by not raising enough, Harrington says with a hand like 99 you should make it 4/5 times the BB.

And maybe I could have made a c-bet sized bet to not leave myself vulnerable to get played off the hand.

I'm still learning here guys. (BTW, came second in that one)

Everthing ive heard about this "Harrington" character is total bullshit. You dont want a big pot early position with 99 against a super tight player in position. End of story.

You bet big he isnt going to say "oh I guess my AK suited or JJ on the button is no good, is he? NO. Keep your bets the same to minimize reads, keep the pots small against tight players and try to think ahead more.

Basically, you don't know where you are, and we don't know your table image. Your choices:

a) re-raise pre-flop - your one advantage is that you are in early position so opponent knows you have a hand. He most certainly has a high pair TT, JJ, QQ KK or AA. So by reraising you are hoping he has a TT to QQ and is good enough to lay it down believing you have AA. This is unlikely.

b) fold to the reraise.

c) call and see the flop hoping for a 9 - bad maths 8 to 1 chance and you're committing more chips than the odds allow.

So it's best to fold to reraise and wait for a better opportunity.

If you are still there after that flop then you fold to the bet as he's telling you he has a pair TT or above.

i really think u need to start writeing more info so theres no guessing ....really its not helping any1 or ur self by not giving as much info as u can get out of the questions ur asking ......

Originally Posted by MATelford

I cant believe this can guy is labelled "advanced member".
This post is outrageously incorrect.
Im not gonna start another war but everyone else ignore this BS.

What are you talking about? What has he said that is "outrageously incorrect"? Seemed like a fairly simple, sensible analysis to me.

Originally Posted by MATelford

I cant believe this can guy is labelled "advanced member".
This post is outrageously incorrect.
Im not gonna start another war but everyone else ignore this BS.

well, at least we can say that your status "amateur" is chosen correctly.

Very good post there from you.. You dont write why you think he's sooo incorrect, youre only hating.. Why you dont share your wisdom with us?

Makes yourself look really good there man.. you are IT !

I have seen that push with AK so i would put him on AX i have even seen pushing with them missing the flop... Point in case i am in the bb i get AK i raise in limit, and i get re raised by UTG1 i hit an ace well he is pushing with 56os.... Thought it is hard to put him on any thing better then AX and don't forget hes on the button witch is key....
I do think you got out played. I have a tight image and it i see a time to bluff i will

Originally Posted by FatBasset

My question for you is why did you re-pop his raise pre-flop to then check on a flop that is as harmless as it could be without catching a set. Personally, I feel a min re-raise pre-flop is almost always a signal for AA or KK as it is begging to be called. Also, it appears that you checked in this situation because your instinct is you are facing a better pair so don't try to talk yourself into making a mistake by staying in this hand.

^^this +1

There is no need for villian to 3bet your 3xBB raise cause he's got pos anyway, yet he does ....
At this point I'd be expecting him to have AK or 1010+.
I'd fold here, too.

theres no reason to play against a tight player online there are so many donks around pick on one of them. he probably had QQ KK AA if he was that tight. then again you might have got him on one of those hands where tight players know everyone thinks there tight and he pushed you with 22. ALSO REMEMBER THAT ALMOST HALF THE TIME YOU HAVE A POCKET PAIR SOMEONE ON THE TABLE ALSO HAS A PAIR ITS CRAZY BUT TRUE ONLINE ONLY NOT IN LIVE GAMES

If ya had a feeling a tight player that strong fold should b a easy choice,but a free roll ya can afford to make mistakes learn from them and apply the outcome,but playing online 2-3 ppl usually hit the pot so makes a good race alot of times gl

call if you are feeling lucky
fold if you are not

The fact that you wrote this post proves that position is key to poker. The worst thing happened and the tight player raised you. You only have a 7-1 chance to hit trips and make a really good hand. With both your chips stacks it's a fold preflop after a raise in my book. Your not going to make enough to justify this call the times you could loose.

If i was the tight player i wouldn't have you on 99 raising 3x the blind. So he must have you on a good hand. But then to raise you min he's asking for a call. He has you beat before it's begun.

Its good that you put the opponent on a range. That is the first step in analyzing the situation.
In this case I dont think you have the EV to call, vs the range that you put him on.
Sometimes when I want to call even though I know it isnt the smartest thing to do I try to remind myself that there is easier money out there.

And by the way, people seem to think tight players will play the hand very passive, but tightness doesnt say anything about the agressiveness.

You knew all the answers. He is a tight player, he has position and he is raising. He obviously has the goods.

Also...what image have you been projecting? If you are projecting a tight image then you gotta think he knows that and would respect your raise from your early/mid position pre-flop unless he had a monster hand.

If you realy sure that hes so tight, its a clear fold. and if you sure like this I dont understand your re-raise?!

Originally Posted by KardKlub

The fact that you wrote this post proves that position is key to poker. The worst thing happened and the tight player raised you. You only have a 7-1 chance to hit trips and make a really good hand. With both your chips stacks it's a fold preflop after a raise in my book. Your not going to make enough to justify this call the times you could loose.

If i was the tight player i wouldn't have you on 99 raising 3x the blind. So he must have you on a good hand. But then to raise you min he's asking for a call. He has you beat before it's begun.

Thats right and position is the key even in limit.....

Well right off the bat, me personally, i would have limped under the gun with that hand. You could wait to see any other raises and then compare that aggression to previous hands played with that person. Plus you would have put in less chips, and therefore have and easier time getting away from it. If he was betting big on the flop, you may be beat.

Since that didnt happen though, i think i would lay id down here to try and save the chips you have for another hand. People put too much faith in pocket pairs, and you technically only have middle pair. I dont think it is worth it to find out.

Originally Posted by kidkvno1

Thats right and position is the key even in limit.....

Here this should help !!! http://academy.fulltiltpoker.com/video/play/type/lessons/id/14/
Now with this i see why position is the key to winning...
Hope it helps....

i wouldve folded. if you think your beat than dont risk your entire tourney on a hand that your not sure of

Originally Posted by m00

well, at least we can say that your status "amateur" is chosen correctly.

Very good post there from you.. You dont write why you think he's sooo incorrect, youre only hating.. Why you dont share your wisdom with us?

Makes yourself look really good there man.. you are IT !

I said up above y

i think i would all in in that case, sure he could have pocket everything better but the chances of tha is slim, he could have 10 sometghing but that agian are a little slim. by the way the blinds are so high and ther is so much in the pot, and he is first to act i think it was a bluff, he probably would hve bet less on the flop if he had a good or great hand, he knew if he did not bet u probably would (which you would have) and then he thinks your trying to steal the pot but in no way can he call cause of aj or aq

You basically dont have a clue what he has so I would suggest you fold. Most likely he is much stronger and has outplayed you. If your hand is weaker then any of the hands you named you should not be in the pot.