Bubble, With JJ?

naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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I've actually had this happened to me today earlier in a 2500 GTD game over on Carbon Poker...

So I'm in 7th place with 22 left out of 226 players, Money starts over at 20th place (ok)...

So where in the BB, and the Button btw is the Biggest stack of the tourney, and blinds at this time are pretty high up (I seriously do forget how high they are).... But I know were at about 25-30 BB's Deep, and Comfortable to make ITM...

So the Big Stack has just been Steam rolling the Table, I've folded 9s, 8s, 7s, and once AQ to a re-raise from him, so this time it's my BB, and he raises Big like always, Now is calling OOP to see the Flop an Option here? If so then why? Folding is also an Option (But just seems soooooooooo Nitty)...Which leaves the 3rd option a Reraise/Push)...Now the real Problem is this, If I were to re-raise I'm Committed in the Hand, and thus If an AKQ pops up were in trouble being OOP...

So What road would you take and why..

BTW he's a known Station, TAG but Station, hates folding once he's raised the hand
 
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PacHo21

Rising Star
Game before buble is very hard. But you had to avoid playing vs the biggest stack. One time I had AKs in the button and make raise to the bb, he was the deep of the table, he putted all in and i had to call. He showed AA :( very bad for me leaving before buble. So you should make a small raise see the flop and fold if you see something better than yours, if he makes you a all in re-raise you have to check fast what he showed when he goes all in and calculate your % of winning.
Also I think that JJ is good hand to play but not to re-raiser annd however to someone that have more stack than your.
You have to keep in mind that you have to play vs players who have smaller stack and can't KO you. Try to do it better next time, and try to tight more before prizes and use high ranges (ATs+) and also when you are inside JJ are good.
 
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only_bridge

Legend
IMO this is a no brainer push.
Perfect stack size very strong hand and OOP.
He will fold often enough, and we wont hate it if he calls.
 
eagle jim

eagle jim

Visionary
I agree it is a great spot to shove, but if we are against someone who never folds to a 3bet/4bet shove and he has us covered and we are near the bubble and ..........I am not sure. May be more +ev to fold and preserve our stack and make the money. If we are past the bubble then I think it is a no brainer shove. Definitely, maybe, gheesh it just freakin' depends.
 
Double-A

Double-A

Visionary
Difficult to give an answer without knowing stack sizes... but even with that information we'd still need to answer some other questions:

What are our goals?

Are we playing to win the tournament or safely cash as much as possible?

If each step up the payout ladder is a "life changer" for us then we might think about folding. If we're properly rolled for this BI, "just another tourney", then we should probably think about raising.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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Difficult to give an answer without knowing stack sizes... but even with that information we'd still need to answer some other questions:

What are our goals? To win isn't that the point of every tourney?

Are we playing to win the tournament or safely cash as much as possible? Same as above

If each step up the payout ladder is a "life changer" for us then we might think about folding. If we're properly rolled for this BI, "just another tourney", then we should probably think about raising.

Well to be honest not BR'd for this Entry level but We still could afford it, more on the shy end of BR...


Stack Size I really don't recall but we were both deep I was in top 7 and he was in 1st place
 
DetroitJimmy

DetroitJimmy

Legend
The nit in me says to fold. The LAG in me says you got his range crushed if he calls and if you win you will be CL or close to it. Even though I would have a tough time doing it, the aggressive route sounds better in the long run. Most of the money is in the top 3 and if you win this hand YOU can be pushing the SS's on bubble around and have good shot at first. Anyone disagree here?

It is close though IMO.
 
Double-A

Double-A

Visionary
Well to be honest not BR'd for this Entry level but We still could afford it, more on the shy end of BR...


Stack Size I really don't recall but we were both deep I was in top 7 and he was in 1st place

If we really can't settle for anything but first (and judging from your response in the quoted portion of your reply, we can't) then shove.

Also, we might start every tournament w/ the intention of winning but circumstance can (and sometimes should) change our goals. The money we could gain by moving up the payout ladder sometimes out weighs the chances of a particular hand holding up.
 
L

Lofwyr

Rock Star
226 entrants and top 20 get paid...I must therefore assume this has a somewhat typical MTT payout structure and top3 spots represent like 40-50% of the prize money.

If the above is true then shove JJ here all day, every day and three times on Sunday. This is especially true if villain has shown that he hates folding and will call preflop raises light. You might get looked up here as an 80/20 or 65/35 favorite if he can't get away from 66-TT, AT, AJ, etc. Given that you should be playing for top 3 as well, this is an excellent spot to pick up some chips damn-near "free" chips. It also sends something of a message to the chip leader: "back off my big blind sucka!"
 
bredstik

bredstik

Rock Star
Agreed.

Since it's against the big stack, if you're determined to cash, I'd fold. If you're going for the win, it'd probably be a good place to shove. Usually against the big stack heavy raisers I like to try and somehow see a flop before I put all my chips in the middle.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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Thx for the Great replies all, keep them coming...My theory also as some one stated was to send a message to the Big Stack also....Also as others stated Top Tier is money heavy and the rest is well you know Same BS.

20th was just my money doubled, and this dude was just straight Running the Table over...As I stated I folded enough Pairs (Mid Ones), so JJ is very Strong against this type of player was (and still is) my way of thinking
 
Pascal-lf

Pascal-lf

Legend
Stop folding good hands to a big stack because you want to min cash...basically :p

99 against this guy is the nuts, as is AQ. You're stack could have been a lot bigger if you'd taken advantage of the previous opportunities.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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Stop folding good hands to a big stack because you want to min cash...basically :p

99 against this guy is the nuts, as is AQ. You're stack could have been a lot bigger if you'd taken advantage of the previous opportunities.

Well I folded all those Mid pairs since I didn't want a confrontation but the JJ is well JJ:) ...
 
midgetfactory

midgetfactory

Visionary
id fold, get in the cash places then take it from there, its too big of a risk so close to the cash. there is a place and time when to shove
 
Falloooooon

Falloooooon

Rock Star
I think I'm guilty quite often of getting too passive around the bubble in certain conditions, but even I am shoving against this opponent here.
 
flint

flint

Visionary
The answer to this really depends on what the alternative is. If the players are playing super tight and you can steal almost as much as you want when the big stack is not raising then I think a fold is fine since we can pickup a lot of chips with no risk.

Also it depends on if you think the big stack is just a maniac or is abusing the bubble. Obviously if he is going to do this all the way, then we can wait for another spot to re-raise/ shove on him after the bubble to pickup free chips.

These are a few aspects to think of. You have to start thinking in terms of how those choices will affect not just the outcome of this hand, but future action and your chances to the higher money spots.

Personally, would shove or fold this most of the time, although calling is fine in some spots aswell.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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Well all are great responses thus far...So I'll wait until I get a-couple more responses, from more CCer's to tell you my path I took
 
B

BabyAcey

Rock Star
If you know he's not gonna fold because he's calling everything then I say fold them and wait it out. Have had it happen too many times where I've been comfortable in stack up against chip leader near the bubble and bam it's gone! Even if you pulled trips, he'll probably get a straight with his 3 7 off suit. It sucks but usually, not always, plays out that way. Frustrating!
 
S

sweepnet

Enthusiast
I think I am a fold wait it out vote also. You are 7th in postion, so plenty of time and chips left to wait for another spot. After bubble, push.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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If you know he's not gonna fold because he's calling everything then I say fold them and wait it out. Have had it happen too many times where I've been comfortable in stack up against chip leader near the bubble and bam it's gone! Even if you pulled trips, he'll probably get a straight with his 3 7 off suit. It sucks but usually, not always, plays out that way. Frustrating!

Well isn't the point of playing to win and not min cash


I think I'm guilty quite often of getting too passive around the bubble in certain conditions, but even I am shoving against this opponent here.

I hate playing passive during the Bubble, I think it's the best time to get Free Easy Chips



id fold, get in the cash places then take it from there, its too big of a risk so close to the cash. there is a place and time when to shove
This Did Run across my mind also, and actually Thought long and hard about folding this hand personally, but JJ once again, steam rolling the table, I just couldn't help myself


Agreed.

Since it's against the big stack, if you're determined to cash, I'd fold. If you're going for the win, it'd probably be a good place to shove. Usually against the big stack heavy raisers I like to try and somehow see a flop before I put all my chips in the middle.
Personally I didn't want to Min Cash For starters, and Also there was enough dead money in the Middle


Now to answer the Question, I really didn't know what this dude could've had, but I figured JJ is ahead or a coin flip at worst. So what I did was simple, he raised pre-flop on the Button which I knew was coming:rolleyes:
and I also knew since I'm OOP that Calling is An Option, also the bubble was 2 spots away, so I figured this player wont call unless he has a real hand this time, so I shoved AI, and he had AK, and spiked a King on the turn, and that's all she wrote...I personally Believe I played the hand Correctly and it was a standard spot to shove, I figured only a real hand calls, and his raising range is Far and wide that JJ is a good spot...I only ask this question to Gather different thought process to play Hands differently.

Ty all for giving me your in sight
 
DetroitJimmy

DetroitJimmy

Legend
Think you played it right. If you win this hand which will be win slightly more than half the time in the long run. Then you make FT almost for sure. Plus if bubble hasn't burst you can do the bullying.

Agreed that if you are playing to min. cash then get aggressive you are not playing optimally. Only way this would be acceptable is if it were a satty or if you had tourney ticket for some reason that min.cash would add huge % to BR. Other than that if a min. cash looks good to you you are prolly playing tourney outside of proper BRM.
 
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