Big Stack Facing All-ins

royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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We have all had the situations where we are facing all-ins from short stacks, and are unsure of what to do. Well, I have that same situation in back to back hands.

I literally just sat down at the table and was faced with somewhat difficult decisions. How do you play these out?

btw ITM in this tourney final 25: Rail Request Thread

These two hands occurred back to back.

Hand #1

full tilt poker Game #5570708050: $10 + $1 Knockout (42281158), Table 56 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:00:47 ET - 2008/03/09
Seat 1: coopsdx (12,265)
Seat 2: robstew111 (3,145)
Seat 3: jiveunion (1,838)
Seat 4: jaisun (3,413)
Seat 5: Cappin Ron (19,209)
Seat 6: Smergleah (15,895)
Seat 8: hammerpita (7,175)
Seat 9: royalburrito24 (36,330)
coopsdx antes 75
robstew111 antes 75
jiveunion antes 75
jaisun antes 75
Cappin Ron antes 75
Smergleah antes 75
hammerpita antes 75
royalburrito24 antes 75
royalburrito24 posts the small blind of 300
coopsdx posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [6s 6d]
robstew111 has 15 seconds left to act
robstew111 raises to 3,070, and is all in
jiveunion folds
jaisun folds
Cappin Ron folds
Smergleah folds
hammerpita folds
royalburrito24 ??

Hand #2


Full Tilt poker game #5570716711: $10 + $1 Knockout (42281158), Table 56 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:01:25 ET - 2008/03/09
Seat 1: coopsdx (11,590)
Seat 2: robstew111 (7,340)
Seat 3: jiveunion (1,763)
Seat 4: jaisun (3,338)
Seat 5: Cappin Ron (19,134)
Seat 6: Smergleah (15,820)
Seat 8: hammerpita (7,100)
Seat 9: royalburrito24 (33,185)
coopsdx antes 75
robstew111 antes 75
jiveunion antes 75
jaisun antes 75
Cappin Ron antes 75
Smergleah antes 75
hammerpita antes 75
royalburrito24 antes 75
coopsdx posts the small blind of 300
robstew111 posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [Qs Ac]
royalburrito24: so lucky
jiveunion has reconnected
jiveunion has 15 seconds left to act
jiveunion has been disconnected
jiveunion has 90 seconds to reconnect
jiveunion has reconnected
jiveunion has 15 seconds left to act
jiveunion has been disconnected
jiveunion has 75 seconds to reconnect
jiveunion is sitting out
jiveunion has timed out
jiveunion folds
jaisun has 15 seconds left to act
jaisun raises to 3,263, and is all in
Cappin Ron folds
Smergleah folds
hammerpita folds
Milf_Bluffer sits down
Milf_Bluffer adds 12,944
royalburrito24 ??
 
CubanaD64

CubanaD64

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Both pretty easy calls IMO

Each of these guys have an M of about 3 and could be pushing with a lot of hands, most of which are coinflipping with you in hand 1 and most which you have dominated in hand 2.

On top of that, you could go by Harrington's 10 to 1 rule, which is if you have 10 to 1 on anyone in a tournament, you should call with ATC just for the reward of knocking someone out against the risk of only a small percent of your stack.

Hope this helps :)
 
Effexor

Effexor

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I agree, both are calls. Combine the facts that it's minimal risk to you, likely to be heads up and there's a bounty to be won makes these both calls.

Just because you lost them both doesn't mean they were bad calls.
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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Both pretty easy calls IMO

Each of these guys have an M of about 3 and could be pushing with a lot of hands, most of which are coinflipping with you in hand 1 and most which you have dominated in hand 2.

On top of that, you could go by Harrington's 10 to 1 rule, which is if you have 10 to 1 on anyone in a tournament, you should call with ATC just for the reward of knocking someone out against the risk of only a small percent of your stack.

Hope this helps :)

Cubana Nailed it. You have much better than just ATC.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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2nd one easy call. First one I may even fold there considering we have a hand that is at best a coin flip and possibly an 80-20, but I guess it's a pretty easy call considering with his stack he's probably pushing ATC and it's possibly you're even dominating a 22-55.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Both pretty easy calls IMO

Each of these guys have an M of about 3 and could be pushing with a lot of hands, most of which are coinflipping with you in hand 1 and most which you have dominated in hand 2.

On top of that, you could go by Harrington's 10 to 1 rule, which is if you have 10 to 1 on anyone in a tournament, you should call with ATC just for the reward of knocking someone out against the risk of only a small percent of your stack.

Hope this helps :)

I agree that they're both calls but you need to reread Harrington. He does NOT recommend calling an all-in with ATC as long as it 10% or less of your stack. He recommends raising the shortstack all-in with ATC if you act before them, but only calling an all-in with top hands. Here we have hands good enough to justify both calls but if we held say J7os we should fold.
 
dj11

dj11

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I have not read that part of Harrington yet, but in both these cases I will be more than willing to put the shortstack all in if I'm in control of my actions (I act first), and in both these cases I prefer to let these hands go because I am NOT in control.

IF they are both coin flips, you figure to only break even over the long haul by calling here. You have no way of knowing they will be coin flips.

I've read here for a long time that the big stack has to exert pressure. I have learned that for the most part this is correct. HOWEVER that does NOT mean he has to respond to pressure!
 
K

kick ace 222

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what to do facing all in at a table .....

Saw your posting.......unless you have a quality hand like aa kk or .....I say be patient.....alot of people do not care what they have in their hand and believe "all in " is the way to play. Usually these type of people are the first to get knocked out...... their aggressive style is annoying....but they will typically try to set you up with a weak bluff ...then wait until they catch cards and go all in with AA or KK......then you make a loose call with kg or aj and get crushed.......

My main point is be patient....... folding aj to a "all in" in front of you sucks but it will pay -off in the long run.....I bust people like that all of the time. Wait until you have a good hand and catch a good flop and check to them ...they will self destruct sooner or later...hope this helps.

Kick Ace
 
F

fellowswheel

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I might fold the 66, because at best its likely a coin flip against moderate overcards, at worst its an overpair and you are dominated. I think it being a KO tournament should not affect your decision at all.

The AQ is a likely call, could be against medium to small pair and bea coin flip, but could also have a hand like A10 or AJ dominated. It seems more worth calling than the 66 because the hand has more possibility.
 
I

ineff420

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If you want to give away chips with coin-flips after gathering those hard earned chips thats being a donkey by definition.:joyman:
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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If you want to give away chips with coin-flips after gathering those hard earned chips thats being a donkey by definition.:joyman:

I am hardly giving away my hard-earned chips. It is such a small portion of my stack.

Also,
Can we warrant shoving to gain isolation?
 
Effexor

Effexor

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I don't think that shoving here is a great idea, in the hands you have 1, and 2 people left to act behind you respectively and it's unlikely with a push + call that they'd have a strong enough hand to also call.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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I don't think that shoving here is a great idea, in the hands you have 1, and 2 people left to act behind you respectively and it's unlikely with a push + call that they'd have a strong enough hand to also call.
Taking into account that this a KO tourney (if you have not already) you still do not warrant shoving either of them?
 
M

mvelas

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KO tourney an d with tha t stack, pretty eaaasy calls for u if ur that aggressive... how did u go on that secod hand?? if u get beated again thats such bad luck.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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Results: Irrelevant, but here they are anyways.

Hand #1

Called and lost the coinflip.

Full Tilt Poker Game #5570708050: $10 + $1 Knockout (42281158), Table 56 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:00:47 ET - 2008/03/09
Seat 1: coopsdx (12,265)
Seat 2: robstew111 (3,145)
Seat 3: jiveunion (1,838)
Seat 4: jaisun (3,413)
Seat 5: Cappin Ron (19,209)
Seat 6: Smergleah (15,895)
Seat 8: hammerpita (7,175)
Seat 9: royalburrito24 (36,330)
coopsdx antes 75
robstew111 antes 75
jiveunion antes 75
jaisun antes 75
Cappin Ron antes 75
Smergleah antes 75
hammerpita antes 75
royalburrito24 antes 75
royalburrito24 posts the small blind of 300
coopsdx posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [6s 6d]
robstew111 has 15 seconds left to act
robstew111 raises to 3,070, and is all in
jiveunion folds
jaisun folds
Cappin Ron folds
Smergleah folds
hammerpita folds
royalburrito24 calls 2,770
coopsdx folds
robstew111 shows [As 7d]
royalburrito24 shows [6s 6d]
royalburrito24: weeeeeeeeee
*** FLOP *** [7h Ks Ad]
*** TURN *** [7h Ks Ad] [2d]
jiveunion has been disconnected
*** RIVER *** [7h Ks Ad 2d] [4s]
robstew111 shows two pair, Aces and Sevens
royalburrito24 shows a pair of Sixes
royalburrito24: ah bull crap!
robstew111 wins the pot (7,340) with two pair, Aces and Sevens

Hand #2

Re-shoved for isolation and got called by 10 10 by the same guy from the last hand.

Full Tilt Poker Game #5570716711: $10 + $1 Knockout (42281158), Table 56 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:01:25 ET - 2008/03/09
Seat 1: coopsdx (11,590)
Seat 2: robstew111 (7,340)
Seat 3: jiveunion (1,763)
Seat 4: jaisun (3,338)
Seat 5: Cappin Ron (19,134)
Seat 6: Smergleah (15,820)
Seat 8: hammerpita (7,100)
Seat 9: royalburrito24 (33,185)
coopsdx antes 75
robstew111 antes 75
jiveunion antes 75
jaisun antes 75
Cappin Ron antes 75
Smergleah antes 75
hammerpita antes 75
royalburrito24 antes 75
coopsdx posts the small blind of 300
robstew111 posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [Qs Ac]
royalburrito24: so lucky
jiveunion has reconnected
jiveunion has 15 seconds left to act
jiveunion has been disconnected
jiveunion has 90 seconds to reconnect
jiveunion has reconnected
jiveunion has 15 seconds left to act
jiveunion has been disconnected
jiveunion has 75 seconds to reconnect
jiveunion is sitting out
jiveunion has timed out
jiveunion folds
jaisun has 15 seconds left to act
jaisun raises to 3,263, and is all in
Cappin Ron folds
Smergleah folds
hammerpita folds
Milf_Bluffer sits down
Milf_Bluffer adds 12,944
royalburrito24 raises to 33,110, and is all in
coopsdx folds
robstew111 calls 6,665, and is all in
royalburrito24 shows [Qs Ac]
robstew111 shows [Th Tc]
jaisun shows [Ad Js]
Uncalled bet of 25,845 returned to royalburrito24
*** FLOP *** [7d Kh 2c]
*** TURN *** [7d Kh 2c] [Td]
*** RIVER *** [7d Kh 2c Td] [Kd]
royalburrito24 shows a pair of Kings
robstew111 shows a full house, Tens full of Kings
robstew111 wins the side pot (8,004) with a full house, Tens full of Kings
jaisun shows a pair of Kings
robstew111 wins the main pot (10,689) with a full house, Tens full of Kings
jaisun stands up

I re-shoved here so I could isolate to get the KO.

Is it wrong for me to be ever re-shoving for isolation?

Can we ever condone re-shoving for isolation?
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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I find nothing wrong here. TT made a good call figuring that the 2 of you would have some of each others outs giving him better chance to win.

There are always good cases for shoving for isolation and I think hand 2 is a perfect example.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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I hate to cross threads, but does in this particular hand, was it O.K. to re-shove?
(Scroll towards the bottom of the thread to understand what I am talking about)
 
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