55 UTG

[ph_il]

Wow, great replies.
I have to go with Rob on this one. Everything he said and explained is exactly what I was thinking when I shoved w/ 55 UTG.

As for the hand itself, I took down a decent sized pot.

 

[vanquish]

In 4 hands time, you will be in middle position, have 3K chips, will probably now be one of the shorter stacks (one player each hand is adding 1K to their stack). If folded to you do you push with 63os? BB hasn't played a hand either and is on just 1.5K so is pot committed?

Nope, you wait for a better spot.

In 6 hands time, we've lost a player, you're now on the button. with 3K chips. You get dealt J5 os. Big stack UTG goes all in. Do you call here?

Nope, you wait for a better spot.

Now in BB, you have 2,100 chips (blinds have just gone up). Middle position goes all in, and is raised! You have 72os. Do you call?

Nope, wait for a better spot.

2 hands later you are UTG with 1,650 chips. Average stack on table is 5K. BB has 9K chips. Ante is 100. You have 55 again. What do you do now? Wait for a better spot?

yeah ok. i was unaware that we know what cards we will be dealt and all of the other players actions for the rest of the tournament. given that we know exactly what will happen in the future, we can do exactly what you say, since you are capable of predicting the future, and are able to use that information to prove your own point.

 

[switch0723]

rob thats such a stupid thing to say, since we could pick up aces from now until the end of the tourny

 

[pitter22]

And if you do? Are you calling a push with your tournament life with 88, when you are likely to be a coin toss? When the result if you do if you get it in 10 hands time is that you triple up from 1,200 to 3,600? That's less than you've got at the moment!

So you would rather push with 55 with 7 people acting behind you than call with 88 when one person pushes in front of you? ill take the 88 hand anyday... imo

 

[robwhufc]

So you would rather push with 55 with 7 people acting behind you than call with 88 when one person pushes in front of you? ill take the 88 hand anyday... imo

55 for me please, easy.

I'm not going to change your mind, so carry on folding and waiting.

(p.s. I played the Sunday 200K at stars today. First 88-AA, AK & AQ hand? Hand 87. Standard. For me, maybe not you.)

 

[vanquish]

55 for me please, easy.

I'm not going to change your mind, so carry on folding and waiting.

(p.s. I played the Sunday 200K at stars today. First 88-AA, AK & AQ hand? Hand 87. Standard. For me, maybe not you.)

so you shoved 55 UTG?

 

[nick1usmc]

With 16 left and being UTG with 7 players behind, I would have folded the 5's. Although it is a turbo tourney, I agree with Vanquish...wait for a better spot. It is the position that he has an issue with, not the hand.

 

[switch0723]

Rob your missing the concept of when shoving in late position, you dont need an 88+, a-j+ hand. You just need to be dealt 2 cards

 

[robwhufc]

Rob your missing the concept of when shoving in late position, you dont need an 88+, a-j+ hand. You just need to be dealt 2 cards

I do understand about shoving in late position. I thought I explained in a previous post why you will not get an opportunity to shove in later position in THIS game, but i'll try again.

The preflop pot is 1,000 chips. If you divide this by stack sizes to get each player's M (if you want me to explain this concept, i'll be happy to do so), you get;

Seat 1 - M=3 (desperate)
Seat 2 - M=3 (desperate)
Seat 3 - M=2 (desperate)
Seat 5 - M=5 (borderline desperate)
Seat 6 - M=5 (borderline desperate)
Seat 7 - M=5 (borderline desperate)
Seat 8 - M=3 (desperate)
Seat 9 (You) - M=4 (borderline desperate).

So the ENTIRE table has an M of just 5 or less. You are currently hovering right on the line of desparation if we take that as an M of 3. If you fold now and go through the blinds without winning a pot, now you DO have an M of 3.

So on a table where the pre-flop pot is a substantial portion of EVERY player's pot, how likely do you think that the hand will be folded round to you next round (and we are only talking about ONE more round- that's all you have!) in late position without one of the players going all in? And how likely is it that the Blinds are going to fold to a raise when that will leave them barely 2K chips each? You cannot fold through the blinds twice, you have 7 or 8 hands left in which you NEED to win a pot. In 5 hands time, you'll be pushing with Q8 with 5 players left to act, when you are much more likely to be called because opponents realise they need to take a gamble. Still want to fold pocket 5's here, when you are only getting called by big pairs and big aces (and you are ahead of the ace x hands, with great pot odds)?

You have to go all in now, and at least once every future round that you can survive. If you are lucky enough to wake up with a good hand, then you can call an all in, but otherwise the only chance you have of surviving other than just relying on luck(and this IS a game of surviving now) is to maintain sufficient chips to have fold equity, and to keep hitting the pot.

You cant apply standard early tournament tactics to high blind turbo end tables - the game is COMPLETELY different, and it is the players that can adapt their thinking that will succeed.

Collin Moshman's 2+2 SNG book is very good - it deals with these high blind situations in depth.

 

[switch0723]

on the other side of the, every one is desperate arguement. Say we go the next 6 hands without playing a pot, as you say, people will be shoving marginal hands with everyone having borderline chip stacks. Therefore, the odds are that in the next orbit, I like the chances that 2 people go out or at least are crippled to the point of an m of less than 1.

Therefore, without playing a hand, we have a great chance of getting the play down to 6 handed where we can shove more liberally with cards and get it through

Maybe this is just a situation where both options are optimal

 

[WebKill]

i hate small pair like 55 i always loose chips with this kind of hands.

 

[52poutanes]

you definitle cant call....not even close....you either fold, or shove depending on the players at the table...personally i prefer to fold here as your are utg and will only be racing AT BEST....in this position you will either be crushed by a better hand in latter position or be a coin flip...