$.50 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: What was the correct play here?

[tzuriel]

Short stacked villain calls my raise PF and Flop. Should I have slowed down here and just checked Turn? I think I played this wrong but not exactly sure what I should have done instead.

Thanks!


Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.50+$0.05 (16000.00BB)
HJ ($183100)
HERO ($594164)
BTN ($323054)
SB ($204692)
BB ($217442)
UTG ($254272)
MP ($353276)

Dealt to Hero: Q♥ J♣

UTG Folds, MP Folds, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $49600, BTN Folds, SB Calls $40000, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [1.26 effective]
Flop ($123200): T♠ 2♦ 5♠
SB Bets $16000 (Rem. Stack: $139092), HERO Raises To $40000 (Rem. Stack: $504564), SB Calls $24000 (Rem. Stack: $115092)

Turn ($203200): T♠ 2♦ 5♠ 3♠
SB Checks, HERO Bets $58800 (Rem. Stack: $445764), SB Calls $58800 (Rem. Stack: $56292)

River ($320800): T♠ 2♦ 5♠ 3♠ T♦
SB Checks, HERO Checks

Spoiler

SB shows: 2♥ 6♥

SB wins: $320800

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
The first thing to always notice in a poker hand and especially in tournaments is the effective stack size. In this case you were 20BB deep against BTN and 14-15BB against the players in the blinds. A simple system suggested in CC free 30-day course is this:

> 50BB effective - 3BB open raise
25-50BB effective - 2,5BB open raise
15-25BB effective - 2BB open raise
< 15 BB effective - jam

So in this hand you should have made a min-raise. Some players will go 2,1 or 2,2BB, and this is also fine, but its really splitting hairs. The reason, you dont want to open raise large, is because all three players behind you have perfect rejam stacks. If someone moves all in, you need to fold a lot of your range including this hand, and then you want to lose as little as possible, when that happen.

Flop
You flop two overcards, SPR is 1,26, and he leads out for a min-bet. I am pretty much never folding on the flop, when I get like 8:1 and have position. In this situation you pretty much missed, but you have two overcards, and you are getting good enough odds to simply draw to top pair. The question then is, do we raise or call, and if we raise to which size?

Starting with sizing there is around a pot sized bet left, so I think, the only size, that makes any sense, is to move him all in. However I feel, your hand is a little to weak to do that. I would rather use a hand like A high, where you actually beat some of his draws. Or a hand with some backdoor flush potential. With this particular hand I would just call and basically take my price of drawing to top pair.

Turn
I would just check back. Yes the third spade is a bit of a scare card, but I would rather semi-bluff, if I actually had a spade, so that I had more equity and also blocked some of his flushes. And once again if you are going to bet, no size makes sense other than all-in. You are sizing like, you are trying to milk him for value. But you only have Q high, so if you are going to bet, your goal is to make him fold.

River
He have to few chips left to bluff him of any hand, and its also somewhat likely, he might actually have a T and have just improved to trips. So definitely the right decision to check back now and basically give up.

 

[tzuriel]

Thanks for that guide. I haven't finished that 30day course yet but it's really been helpful so far! I know it can help me with some of the leaks I see in my play. Like this hand!

 

[fundiver199]

Welcome. Just as a quick addition whenever I face a min-donk like this, I typically just ignore it and pretend, the player had checked to me. So the question on the flop is essentially, is this a hand, we want to C-bet? And I think in this situation the answer is probably no. The SPR is very low, so its easy for him to check-jam, and we really have missed completely. If we C-bet every single hand like this, we are simply C-betting to much, and we are pretty easy to own with check-jams.

Also while I typically ignore a min-donk, I do think, he probably connected to the flop in some way. And with him having only a pot sized bet left after min-donking, I am not sure, how much fold equity you actually have. So while this situation is always a bit annoying, because calling feels like, we are just paying him off, I think it is the least bad option. If we jam the flop, I think, he is probably calling us off with a hand like the one, he had, and then we have basically forced him to put his chips in with 75% equity.

 

[kkonicke]

One small note to add, often in these lower $ tournaments...people get really sticky with bad hands and you can easily inch their entire stack in when only 15-20 BB even with a mediocre or worse holding. In this case, if you had something like 77 you probably feel great that you can easily stack this guy...he's obviously not folding on that river if he stuck this long. In this case, you could have made a polarizing bet on the turn and probably pushed him off. Also could have pushed him off some A high and K high that don't include a flush draw.

I personally would have taken a less aggressive line with this one. I probably call the 16000 on the flop and fold to any future action if i don't improve.

 

[jaworek1405]

Hello, I agree in the large part with guys. I think that in tournament for 0,55$ we can play bigger raise pre flop, because in tournament are a lot of beginner players and they don't respect min raise, they sometimes call raise pre flop with weak hands. Raise for 3x has bigger respect against beginner players. As played - I don't like raise on the flop his bet with two over cards and besides Q high. I can one time call his bet on the flop to hit top pair, but if I hit top pair on the turn I still don't know if I have the best hand. So we can have some problem with one pair if we hit. The turn card isn't good, becuase of flush and I think that we should slow down. I probably give up this hand on the turn, because we have only Q high and even if we hit top pair on the turn, we can have hard decision on the river if opponent bet as a first. So I think that I give up hand on the turn, sometimes better wait for better situations to win some chips. GL

 

[eetenor]

Short stacked villain calls my raise PF and Flop. Should I have slowed down here and just checked Turn? I think I played this wrong but not exactly sure what I should have done instead.

Thanks!


Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.50+$0.05 (16000.00BB)
HJ ($183100)
HERO ($594164)
BTN ($323054)
SB ($204692)
BB ($217442)
UTG ($254272)
MP ($353276)

Dealt to Hero: Q♥ J♣

UTG Folds, MP Folds, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $49600, BTN Folds, SB Calls $40000, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [1.26 effective]
Flop ($123200): T♠ 2♦ 5♠
SB Bets $16000 (Rem. Stack: $139092), HERO Raises To $40000 (Rem. Stack: $504564), SB Calls $24000 (Rem. Stack: $115092)

Turn ($203200): T♠ 2♦ 5♠ 3♠
SB Checks, HERO Bets $58800 (Rem. Stack: $445764), SB Calls $58800 (Rem. Stack: $56292)

River ($320800): T♠ 2♦ 5♠ 3♠ T♦
SB Checks, HERO Checks

Spoiler

SB shows: 2♥ 6♥

SB wins: $320800

Thank you for posting.

So all the data suggests that this is a late stage in a tournament. How late stage it was matters. ICM may play a very large role in our decision making here.

In tournaments of this stake we can always play an exploitable strategy as our villains do not exploit us very often.

What does that mean regarding this hand and these stack sizes with potential ICM factors?

Exploit 1 We fold QJ preflop due to stack sizes and these villain's tendencies-there is no need to maximize every hands equity as we get max equity from our premium spots most of the time. We do not need to speculate on hands when we have the chip lead. This exploit is of course versus those villains that do not fold and will shove preflop. Versus weak tight villains the exploit is the opposite.

Exploit 2 We min raise knowing we will be called and exploit our V post flop. Exploiting them means calling donk min leads for equity realization and pot control. It also includes folding what we might think are close spots as we need not max our equity every hand when ICM is a factor.

Hope this helps

 

[tzuriel]

Thank you for posting.

So all the data suggests that this is a late stage in a tournament. How late stage it was matters. ICM may play a very large role in our decision making here.

In tournaments of this stake we can always play an exploitable strategy as our villains do not exploit us very often.

What does that mean regarding this hand and these stack sizes with potential ICM factors?

Exploit 1 We fold QJ preflop due to stack sizes and these villain's tendencies-there is no need to maximize every hands equity as we get max equity from our premium spots most of the time. We do not need to speculate on hands when we have the chip lead. This exploit is of course versus those villains that do not fold and will shove preflop. Versus weak tight villains the exploit is the opposite.

Exploit 2 We min raise knowing we will be called and exploit our V post flop. Exploiting them means calling donk min leads for equity realization and pot control. It also includes folding what we might think are close spots as we need not max our equity every hand when ICM is a factor.

Hope this helps

Thank you. It definitely helps. This is a leak when I am deep in a tournament: speculating and trying to get max equity on too many hands.

 

[eetenor]

Thank you. It definitely helps. This is a leak when I am deep in a tournament: speculating and trying to get max equity on too many hands.

This thread may be of value to you


https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tou...-nlhe-stt-why-playing-gto-482192/#post5994176

 

[tzuriel]

This thread may be of value to you


https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tou...-nlhe-stt-why-playing-gto-482192/#post5994176

Indeed. I have read that one a couple times Thanks!

 

[theANMATOR]

Add a note on that player he defends his SMALL BLIND with any 2 suited and 6 high - take all his chips - often when he calls you down with a terrible pair.