M
Marginal
Junior Member
Silver Level
Yeah but shoving AK never wins the argument. FFS it is only a drawing hand, can't even beat 22!!!1!
Yeah but shoving AK never wins the argument. FFS it is only a drawing hand, can't even beat 22!!!1!
cjatud2012
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver Level
god dammit, I never said it's a drawing hand. The fact of the matter is we're taking an enormous risk by shoving, and yes I know you're not going to win every flip, blah blah blah, but we won't get enough folds here, bottom line.
But by all means, continue to ignore what I've said, no problem. Just keep up your superior cash game attitude, that's fine.
But by all means, continue to ignore what I've said, no problem. Just keep up your superior cash game attitude, that's fine.
M
Marginal
Junior Member
Silver Level
It was just a joke on the general direction that these threads take. Jeez tourney guy, we know you know what you are doing, we dont doubt you but we tend to like to have some fun in these kinds of threads.
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M
Marginal
Junior Member
Silver Level
cjatud2012
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver Level
hah, well my name is cj, and I go to UD for school, so it's like "cj at ud". My graduation year is 2012.
sorry again for ranting, it just set me off for some reason, wish I hadn't done that.
cjatud2012
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver Level
did you read any of the posts in the thread?
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Yup, every one of them.
I'm never folding here.
cjatud2012
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver Level
That's right, the fighting Blue Hens... Er, not quite the intimidating beast, is it?
so you're not even gonna say why you completely disagree? That's awfully thoughtful.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Thoughtful... or helpful? How do you know how long I thought about it for?
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
This leads to an interesting Levelling game here. Assume the blinds had just gone up to 150/300, and we're the BTN here.
Knowing that SB & BB should be calling ubertight , the correct move for the button is to shove ATC, right?
So knowing that the BTN is shoving ATC, AK comes back into our calling range.
The better the player, the wider he's shoving from the BTN. Since he's been passive, villain is prob not raising very wide here.
So knowing this, with the blinds about to go up, you fold your AK and shove 72o the next hand, no?
*walks in late*
Only one problem with this - the other players probably don't understand that they're supposed to be calling uber-tight. Most will still think "OMG KQ is huge short handed I call" and even most of the thoughtful ones will be considering something more along the lines of "stacks are about even so I'm going to have to take a risk at some point in order to cash".
I know in the middle of a game without the numbers in front of me I snap-shove AK in this spot. Seeing the numbers has been enlightening though, thanks y'all
W
WiZZiM
Legend
Silver Level
All even stacks with no clear chip leader, i'm shoving this all day.
Also, SNG Wiz won't account for future game stuff like; If we fold this, we hand the chip lead over to this guy. If he is a regular player, it's like handing cake to a fat kid. He's going to take those chips and start to pwn and shove super wide. If we fold, we now have to shove much tighter and call much tigher in the future, basically, we are blinding ourselves out of the tournament(Never blind out!!). If we win this pot, we can start to shove wider in the future. Basically, there are times to fold AK on the bubble, but this isn't one for me. So i'd disregard anything SNG wiz has to say, and go with my common sense on this one.
Also, SNG Wiz won't account for future game stuff like; If we fold this, we hand the chip lead over to this guy. If he is a regular player, it's like handing cake to a fat kid. He's going to take those chips and start to pwn and shove super wide. If we fold, we now have to shove much tighter and call much tigher in the future, basically, we are blinding ourselves out of the tournament(Never blind out!!). If we win this pot, we can start to shove wider in the future. Basically, there are times to fold AK on the bubble, but this isn't one for me. So i'd disregard anything SNG wiz has to say, and go with my common sense on this one.
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spunka
Visionary
Bronze Level
You have around 150 invested in the pot and are willing to flip for you stack, to get the chip lead so you are better able to shove for your life more often, that seems like a very good point regarless of what all the matematic says, and that is common sense for eveybody.
W
WiZZiM
Legend
Silver Level
Is this sarcastic?
spunka
Visionary
Bronze Level
I was under the impression that as you're stack get lower in comparision to the blinds, the wider would you're shoving range would be, but maybe I am wrong here.
On the other hand if you fell lucky or think the guy is trying to steal you can of couse shove, but then you follow your instincts and read on the players, and not the right way to play according to the math.
There is another aspect to consider to let's say you feel lucky and want to win the tournament and don't care about 2nd and 3rd place, then I do think the correct play maybe would be to shove.
But most players want into the money and then open up their game and do the fighting there.
It's always a bit depressing to have waisted 1 hour or more on a game and then end up as bubble boy//girl.
anyway sometimes we do most of us I think make the shove or call (depending on what mood we're in), but that does not make it the right play, the math is the way to go together with the reads you have on the player.
On the other hand if you fell lucky or think the guy is trying to steal you can of couse shove, but then you follow your instincts and read on the players, and not the right way to play according to the math.
There is another aspect to consider to let's say you feel lucky and want to win the tournament and don't care about 2nd and 3rd place, then I do think the correct play maybe would be to shove.
But most players want into the money and then open up their game and do the fighting there.
It's always a bit depressing to have waisted 1 hour or more on a game and then end up as bubble boy//girl.
anyway sometimes we do most of us I think make the shove or call (depending on what mood we're in), but that does not make it the right play, the math is the way to go together with the reads you have on the player.