PTR selling HH

[Poker Orifice]

Seems kinda strange a bit contradictory that PTR is the site that is outing some of the cheating scandals &/or security problems, but meanwhile they openly advertise selling HH's?

I used to visit PTR but ~5mos. ago, something on that site has kept me from being able to log in... even after making a pw change - same results (I can't get on there?). Oh well... no biggy.

 

[FatBasset]

I know Rush Poker is pretty unpopular, but sites like PTR can't acquire your HH while playing Rush Poker. (At least it doesn't appear that way)

 

[Aldito]

How much are people willing to pay for these HH's?

 

[dmorris68]

How much are people willing to pay for these HH's?

Prices vary by provider, stakes, and the amount you want to buy. Last I looked at prices (curiosity folks, I didn't buy ) some HH sites were charging like $4-$5 for a week's worth or $20 for a month of micro limits, which as I recall was around 800k hands per week from the bigger sites, fewer from the less popular sites. PTR charges around $25-$30 for 1M micro hands from a site like Stars.

I've never actually paid for any HHs, but back in the day when I first started online and discovered tracking software, I got maybe 200K free micro HH's to seed the software. Back then they often didn't charge for the micro stakes, plus I got in with one site who was just starting up and giving free HH's to get folks interested in paying later. Sometime after, when I got a bit more knowledgeable about these things, my conscience bugged me and I purged all the old HHs from my database. Besides the hands were old by then and turnover in micros is quite high, so old hands get obsoleted quickly anyway.

 

[fletchdad]

^^^ Well I was mostly being facetious with the PTR comment -- I seriously doubt you'll find any serious online player who hasn't just registered at PTR but visits it frequently. I was needling you is all.

ya got me...

and thanks for the info.

 

[Zorba]

I got the e-mail also, and the first thing I thought was, how do I know that they are real and not made up HH's, whats stopping them from making up false HH's to sell.

 

[dmorris68]

I got the e-mail also, and the first thing I thought was, how do I know that they are real and not made up HH's, whats stopping them from making up false HH's to sell.

I'm pretty sure that would take a lot more effort than actually selling the real HHs. Especially with a site like PTR, where they not only have a well-established reputation, but obviously have the hands already from their stat-tracking side.

 

[Poof]

Its quite common for players to buy hand histories. They will not analyze thousands of hands, they simply import them into HEM or PT3 and instantly have each players stats on their HUD's.

What would the difference be between this and say Poker-edge, which is from what I understood is againt TOC to use?

 

[WVHillbilly]

What would the difference be between this and say Poker-edge, which is from what I understood is againt TOC to use?

Not much actually. Both are 100% against the TOC of most sites although buying HHs is much harder for the sites to police.

 

[Poof]

Gotcha, and the fact that PE runs like a hud, it is probably easier to detect, where as these HH's go into PT3 or HEM which is legal...

 

[WVHillbilly]

Gotcha, and the fact that PE runs like a hud, it is probably easier to detect, where as these HH's go into PT3 or HEM which is legal...

Exactly.

 

[Marginal]

Why is CC promoting PTR now? This is not a good idea.

 

[PTR]

I think it' a kind of cheating.

I have to disagree

Let's imagine you're a professional chess player. Next week, you're going to be playing against Gary Kasparov, the best chess player in the world!

So you sit down to study his weaknesses.

First, you go to http://www.chessgames.com/player/garry_kasparov.html to find out his general stats.

Then, you start replaying all his championship games (like this one http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1067129) trying to find his weaknesses.

When it comes time for the match, you destroy Gary. No one in the chess community would consider this cheating. You studied your opponent and discovered his weaknesses. You deserved to win.

Same thing with hand histories.

 

[Poof]

Hi, and welcome to CardsChat PTR.

 

[lcid86]

Great thread. Would you feel comfortable sitting down at a table in a casino if 3 of the players had a laptop in front of them and you were required to give them your name before you could play?

Hand histories on their own give someone an advantage. Combine that with technology that makes it instantly available, with analysis based on that cards being played, really stacks the odds against you.

 

[Marginal]

I have to disagree

Let's imagine you're a professional chess player. Next week, you're going to be playing against Gary Kasparov, the best chess player in the world!

So you sit down to study his weaknesses.

First, you go to http://www.chessgames.com/player/garry_kasparov.html to find out his general stats.

Then, you start replaying all his championship games (like this one http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1067129) trying to find his weaknesses.

When it comes time for the match, you destroy Gary. No one in the chess community would consider this cheating. You studied your opponent and discovered his weaknesses. You deserved to win.

Same thing with hand histories.

It does not matter how ridiculous a rule is (I do think it is but I digress) the fact is that it is against the TOC and we must respect that. Once it is against the TOC, it has to be regarded as something shady/unethical/ a form of cheating, as much as we disagree with the rule, the issue is that that is what it is.

 

[pappasqueaks]

Whatever happenn to the old methotd of pen and paper, writing down key hands and decision that u were, its cheap.

 

[dmorris68]

Whatever happenn to the old methotd of pen and paper, writing down key hands and decision that u were, its cheap.

Works great for live play. Pretty close to impossible for online play, unless you're a *very* casual player, or play against the same 10 guys at the nosebleeds.

Two completely different games, folks, live and online. I wish people would realize that and accept it for what it is.

Disclaimer: I'm not arguing for buying HH's or even using PTR, I'm arguing against this common notion among what must be newbie players to online poker, who think it in any way compares with live poker in terms of the tools used to track and study your play. This is why we use tracking software. In live play, you write notes or even dictate into a recorder, then maybe if you're really high-tech-anal you take that home and enter it in a spreadsheet or database, as recommended by some poker authors. The equivalent for online play is to use tracking software which gathers this data in a database for you, because you can't possible keep up with that amount of volume manually.

 

[bloodvodka]

This could be resolved much easier by just having an option you could tick in the poker client saying hide my name from observers.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

oh my... Bloodvodka. You are seriously on to something imho.

The name could be blanked, obfuscated, changed or even user defined.

This would be up to the user and would completely &#^@$ the datamining sites.

Problem: It would make bumhunting by name, and table selection harder. Perhaps there is a way for a poker user to see the real names in the list, but not by seat position.

 

[WVHillbilly]

All a site would need to do to stop datamining would be to make the tables unobservable (like Rush is currently). This way those with a seat at the table get the HHs from the hands that they actually play and it puts PTR out of business. Site could have a few "railbird" tables at each level that could be observed for those that do such things and the world would be a better place.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

Since, as far as I know the sites have no benefit from PTR I would imagine these actions are already being considered, and perhaps (hopefully, I think) implemented.

I have often wondered if PTR was shooting themselves in the foot by policing the poker sites, as in trying to hack them, and publishing rake data etc. I would imagine the folks at Stars and FTP are not exactly best friends with PTR, and whats left of UB... well that's another story.

 

[bloodvodka]

Im sure more than one person has stopped playing online due to this problem. The question I think we should all ask ourselves is ...
"Will card rooms and pro players make more money if people are not afraid to play real stakes online?"

 

[Dark Matter 13]

Free to save in your FT account

Never used a HH but if you open a table to watch a player and leave it open it will record all the hands while that table is still open... I opened up all the tables on a tournament i was keeping an eye on and it kept all hands plus got to see how final table played out - all for free? - my time spent lol... Does HH give you any other info besides what you see on "free" history on FT?

 

[dmorris68]

Never used a HH but if you open a table to watch a player and leave it open it will record all the hands while that table is still open... I opened up all the tables on a tournament i was keeping an eye on and it kept all hands plus got to see how final table played out - all for free? - my time spent lol... Does HH give you any other info besides what you see on "free" history on FT?

You don't get mucked showdown hole cards if you're an observer, so no, you don't get the full HH like you would if you were playing.