Poker software = cheating?

[EarnDAStack]

Lol what? An software that is allowed by the poker site is by definition not cheating. It's like someone being upset that people are driving the speed limit because they want to drive slower.

So far as taking time to learn the stats... Guess what the time is going to pass anyways so if poker is something you enjoy doing using all available tools to you to help improve your game isn't a bad idea.

On a second note if you're not willing to put the time in to learn how to use the tools available to you that's your decision, but I wouldn't call people who are taking advantages of the software allowed by the poker site is cheating, they make the rules on what they want to have on their platform

 

[abgvedr]

I agree

HUDs are only a guide at best and most of the time they are only good for preflop unless you have a massive sample size. Even then you would only know to open slightly wider or tighter or this guy will 3bet light. You still have to do everything a player without a HUD even if you have the extra data. I consider it on par with taking really detailed notes.

Also I think a HUD's greatest use is to tell you about how you are playing more than anything and allows you to adjust your game for more balanced play and meaning you are less likely to be exploited.

False.

Get one & you'll see for yourself.

Well this sounds reasonable. I might as well get one and reconsider.

 

[abgvedr]

Lol what? An software that is allowed by the poker site is by definition not cheating. It's like someone being upset that people are driving the speed limit because they want to drive slower.

So far as taking time to learn the stats... Guess what the time is going to pass anyways so if poker is something you enjoy doing using all available tools to you to help improve your game isn't a bad idea.

On a second note if you're not willing to put the time in to learn how to use the tools available to you that's your decision, but I wouldn't call people who are taking advantages of the software allowed by the poker site is cheating, they make the rules on what they want to have on their platform

Well i said somwhere here that i probably went too far by saying its cheating. Lets put it like that - it moves the balance of the game and make it much easier for some people, while others struggle.

I made myself a bit clearer on what i mean by 'cheating' in this reply. And even more clear somwhere along this thread.
And im not really looking for replies telling me facts 'HUD is allowed so aint no cheat'. Im looking for replies with peoples opinions and reasoning behind em.

 

[abgvedr]

Though i still look around my table and notice everything, if someone raises too much i can see it. If someone 3 bets too much i can see it. If someone was playing different vs me than hour ago and all of a sudden start 3bettin me well i see it and adjust my play. Or even strike back with some moves against that person. So he and people around know i aint no fool.
This i think has more to do with talent then using HUD that will tell you this stuff.
Now if you doing multitabling ..... Thats where HUD might be handy.
But anyway. You guys put enough doubt in me so ima go investigate the stuff more closely.

 

[Scart92]

And yeah, im really glad that many sites ban trackers. On iPoker you can also change your nickname as many times as you want. And that all is great.
Of course i dont mean tools like odds calculator, just meant poker trackers that shows players stats

As for the nickname change, I used to have a completely different nickname on pokerstars, but they changed as an exception.

 

[killing_random]

I think it should be integrated in the client as option, for everyone and for free. Otherwise it's a reg's favor. Not everyone who want to play poker, fairly ofcourse, want to be bother with some god knows software and its customization.
Recently I heard that some guy spend $10k on some super special сustom hood. Why the hell I'm supposed to compete with that!?

 

[hubcio96]

"Fun" is a relevant word - I use tracker (HM3) and I have fun. I don't consider this cheating, but more of making an informed decision. If you play poker just for fun, on occasion, you are entitled to your opinion. I play a little bit more than occasionally, and I'm still learning. I probably never will be a pro, but I do like to make some money and be a little bit competitive. Not using a HUD for a semi-serious poker player is like being an athlete and not using LEGAL supplements and data to better themselves.

 

[johnnylawford]

Im not using any software to show player stats, and i think its somwhat cheating.

I have a job and i simply don't have enough time to sit there and investigate that data for half of day, and use all those tools and trackers, you know, cause i have a job.
So basically people who decided to not have job and have ton of free time to use some tools and stuff, and they are rewarded for that by having all the stats in their hands.
And thats very unfair at my opinion.
And now, even if i had some free time, i would still not use those tools. Its like killing the game and i just dont see no fun in this. Poker must be fun. Everything must be fun.

there are a lot of things in poker that require time and money to use that give players an advantage like:

• Studying training sites and getting coaching
• Scenario analysis and learning tools (ICMizer, DTO, Poker Snowie, etc...)
• Tools for capturing, reporting on and displaying data (Poker Tracker, Hold 'Em Manager, etc...)

Poker is a game that takes time to learn and most pros would tell you that you should be investing as much time studying as you do playing when you're starting out. Saying someone's "cheating" for taking advantage of these tools is like saying someone's cheating for running regularly in preparation for a marathon, or working a punching bag before a boxing match.

 

[Vitorbismark]

Hi everyone, I'm going to pass on my vision of the game, as a recreational player who has been playing poker since 2013 and has never been profitable in my life.
I don't use HUD anymore, I don't want to invest money to pay for a good program and just like the author on this topic, I have other occupations (I go to college).

However, although I feel at a disadvantage at times I don't think the use of HUDs is wrong because it is available to all players and if the professionals use it, you should also use it.

The fact that there is no parallel work is no reason not to use a HUD, I think the author of the topic was wrong on this issue.

 

[eberetta1]

I like playing on bovada, bodog, ignitioncasino with the anonymous names. That sure puts a slowdown on people looking to take advantage of my stats.

 

[neptun1914]

I don't think that using HUD is cheating. After all HUD is just tool which displays information from person's hand histories saved by poker client. This is information that is available to every player and you decide if you will use it to improve your game or not. For most people poker is just fun but you can't be angry to these players who invest their free time and efforts to improve their game and win more as a result from it.

As with everything in life players who train more intense and for more time win more. If you play poker for fun you can pay two ways - with your time or with your money.

 

[uri73796]

Many poker players use software to collect statistics, and not too long ago I used hm2 myself. When you have statistics on players sitting at the same table, you feel more comfortable than without statistics, and it simplifies the game in many ways.

 

[Kinganders]

I never used any tool like HUDs for poker as I want to feel "live" and focus on the table myself as much as possible without external help. At the same time I see no problem with anyone using HUDs.

 

[abgvedr]

I don't think that using HUD is cheating. After all HUD is just tool which displays information from person's hand histories saved by poker client. This is information that is available to every player and you decide if you will use it to improve your game or not. For most people poker is just fun but you can't be angry to these players who invest their free time and efforts to improve their game and win more as a result from it.

As with everything in life players who train more intense and for more time win more. If you play poker for fun you can pay two ways - with your time or with your money.

Well correct me if im wrong but there is software that stores information on database and shares it.
And also not only it collects data, it also generates statistics over that data, and that is probably close to impossible for simple humans to do, simply too much data too many players.

 

[fernandofcp]

We are living in an era of computerized knowledge where anything is possible. Not being cheating, crime, contravention or violation of rules, I believe that methods and tools to support success in the game of poker are plausible.

 

[I Live Poker]

Im not using any software to show player stats, and i think its somwhat cheating.

I have a job and i simply don't have enough time to sit there and investigate that data for half of day, and use all those tools and trackers, you know, cause i have a job.
So basically people who decided to not have job and have ton of free time to use some tools and stuff, and they are rewarded for that by having all the stats in their hands.
And thats very unfair at my opinion.
And now, even if i had some free time, i would still not use those tools. Its like killing the game and i just dont see no fun in this. Poker must be fun. Everything must be fun.

Supporting softawares like hud are definitely not cheats, but tools to improve your game and study.
I see no relation to not using these software vs work for some it can be a little difficult to understand the statistics and what they are for but there is a lot of content on the internet explaining and also for those who are unable to pay a license there are free hud options like: hand2note.
If you do not approve of such practices, play on sites that do not allow the use of HUD such as: GGpoker, partypoker.

 

[ghitocarcia]

It is clear that support software is not synonymous with cheating in the game, the truth is that they only give you advantages over your opponent when making a decision, based on the number of hands, but there are professionals who do not use it and so on. they are winners, and there are rooms that do not allow you to use those software. the point is, it's not cheating.

 

[abgvedr]

Well franckly im not personally concerned about it, im more concerned about the whole game and how HUD influence it. If someone have all the statistics on me well okay not too much of a problem. U can use every little thing vs me ait gonna help
My goals in life are more global. To try and make thing around me beter.
Well anyway on the other hand HUD helps people and newbie players to have proper view on a game, how to see other players and how important statistics really are.
But that would be really me trying too hard to find somthing even remotely good about HUD. I still think its evil and it takes too much from poker.

Supporting softawares like hud are definitely not cheats, but tools to improve your game and study.
I see no relation to not using these software vs work for some it can be a little difficult to understand the statistics and what they are for but there is a lot of content on the internet explaining and also for those who are unable to pay a license there are free hud options like: hand2note.
If you do not approve of such practices, play on sites that do not allow the use of HUD such as: GGpoker, Partypoker.

 

[dnadeau1989]

Im not using any software to show player stats, and i think its somwhat cheating.

I have a job and i simply don't have enough time to sit there and investigate that data for half of day, and use all those tools and trackers, you know, cause i have a job.
So basically people who decided to not have job and have ton of free time to use some tools and stuff, and they are rewarded for that by having all the stats in their hands.
And thats very unfair at my opinion.
And now, even if i had some free time, i would still not use those tools. Its like killing the game and i just dont see no fun in this. Poker must be fun. Everything must be fun.

I agree thats somewhat cheating, but if its allowed.... then its allowed.
i would say its a matter of personal choice after that.
i dont use it myself, but it just hypes me up to beat the people using software more.

 

[I Live Poker]

And my personal favourite kind of people are the ones that cannot explain their point, most often cause they don't even have one. They just feel offended, and they go defensive right away.
Sir. Maybe you can be a litle bit more specific on your point?
After all, isn't it why we all gather here? Maybe i do not understand whats going on and i create this thread so people clear up things for me.
But really at this point its way more likely that its you kind sir who don't understand these things. Simply cause you did not even tell a thing about those things.
So please, sir, talk about the subject.

My dear but you are not asking for any clarification, you are only criticizing and accusing users of HUDs of cheaters unfoundedly and without an acceptable argument, because in this case there would be no reason, you are simply wrong. Firstly, because the use of HUD does not guarantee victory to anyone, what guarantees victory is the study of the reflection and understanding of these tools vs their game. Now if you have the chance to use hud like the other players but do not encourage to study or even time do not complain.

 

[I Live Poker]

Anybody who has been on this board for any length of time knows Drivehud is our companies product.

My comment was clear.. it has nothing to do w/ the defense of using HUDs in online poker. My comment was that people like yourself have strong opinions about things they don't even understand, it's funny and entertaining.

By the way I already used DriveHUD's 30-day Free license I found it excellent! Too bad it's over!

 

[I Live Poker]

Well i said somwhere here that i probably went too far by saying its cheating. Lets put it like that - it moves the balance of the game and make it much easier for some people, while others struggle.
Also i am rather new to online poker world so this is al new stuff for me.
Also bot is not same as HUD, this is completely different topic. And yes bots breaking the game very bad.
I think with no bots and no HUDs we could have much more players in poker and much more money and overall the more developed industry. This is what i think.
And this is what could be answered to the question 'How has it ruined.'

Now an acceptable argument.
My answer is as follows: I suggest that you start studying how to use the hud and understand the stats in your free time.
And do you know why I say that?
Even if HUDs were banned in all rooms today, what I have already learned about my own game and about opponents' games would not be taken away from me anymore, as it is already ingrained in my game and even in my unconscious mental "already I automatically make "moves and strategies that I learned from studying together with HUDs. Until later!

 

[abgvedr]

My dear but you are not asking for any clarification, you are only criticizing and accusing users of HUDs of cheaters unfoundedly and without an acceptable argument, because in this case there would be no reason, you are simply wrong. Firstly, because the use of HUD does not guarantee victory to anyone, what guarantees victory is the study of the reflection and understanding of these tools vs their game. Now if you have the chance to use hud like the other players but do not encourage to study or even time do not complain.

Okay what? Please read through the whole thread ok. Im not criticizing players im criticizing the whole HUD thingy for giving players what they should have done themselves.
I said here like milion times its not player A cheating on player B its this tool breaking a game for some extend.
You say you have learned this learned that, wel first of all you could and should have learned that even without no hud. It aint no rocket science.
And also are you saying that main thing about HUD is to teach you that stuff? I kind of thought main thing is to give you stats. Thats it. If you learn somthing during this process well good for you.
And also, man, no offense, but i aint your or anyone elses 'dear'. Ok?

 

[ObbleeXY]

Cheating?
It isn't cheating if it's openly permitted.
But whilst many HUDs are permitted by some sites, these may not permit the use of tools such as ICMizer whilst playing a game. That is kind of silly as a person can have a second laptop alongside the first computer if they want to use ICMizer at the same time.

But in the end, should you use such tools? Yes.
The idea that you should be able to pay attention, work hard and do all this in your head is absurd. You should be watching behaviour and referring to statistics to help you make your decisions. You can pay attention and get a feel for super splashy players and super-quiet nits, but it is important to have a feel over a longer period of time. Given how many times you might be moved in a tourney, it is extremely helpful to sit down and know some background about your opponents before the hand is dealt.

VPIP is a terrifically useful stat for ID'ing how tight or loose a player is. Whilst it can't tell you what cards they're playing, you can predict what range of cards they play based on how often they voluntarily put money in the pot when they don't have to. I will also be more cautious about trying to bluff someone with a high VPIP. But I might be more aggressive when stealing from someone nitty who only puts chips in the pot with the nuts.

At the end of the day, the stats are available. If you do not have the time or inclination to review player stats and make player notes, then I do not really have much sympathy.

I can say that my bankroll has grown since getting a HUD. But you still need to make decisions and fold when you should. And you need to play enough poker for the investment to be worthwhile.

For some CC folks, I have thousands of hand history. For others, none (yet)...but the data is mounting!

Cheers,
ObbleeXY

 

[abgvedr]

Well this sounds so reasonable i might go and get me one and investigate more closely.
Think also one point to HUD would be due to growing player base. Truly no real way of tracking and remembering al the players you have played. Good point you made here.
Also "Don't go broke with JJ"? :rofl: This is painfully true.

Cheating?
It isn't cheating if it's openly permitted.
But whilst many HUDs are permitted by some sites, these may not permit the use of tools such as ICMizer whilst playing a game. That is kind of silly as a person can have a second laptop alongside the first computer if they want to use ICMizer at the same time.

But in the end, should you use such tools? Yes.
The idea that you should be able to pay attention, work hard and do all this in your head is absurd. You should be watching behaviour and referring to statistics to help you make your decisions. You can pay attention and get a feel for super splashy players and super-quiet nits, but it is important to have a feel over a longer period of time. Given how many times you might be moved in a tourney, it is extremely helpful to sit down and know some background about your opponents before the hand is dealt.

VPIP is a terrifically useful stat for ID'ing how tight or loose a player is. Whilst it can't tell you what cards they're playing, you can predict what range of cards they play based on how often they voluntarily put money in the pot when they don't have to. I will also be more cautious about trying to bluff someone with a high VPIP. But I might be more aggressive when stealing from someone nitty who only puts chips in the pot with the nuts.

At the end of the day, the stats are available. If you do not have the time or inclination to review player stats and make player notes, then I do not really have much sympathy.

I can say that my bankroll has grown since getting a HUD. But you still need to make decisions and fold when you should. And you need to play enough poker for the investment to be worthwhile.

For some CC folks, I have thousands of hand history. For others, none (yet)...but the data is mounting!

Cheers,
ObbleeXY