Playing with out a HUD

[Stu_Ungar]

I'm not sure why people are trying to convince non-HUDers to use one. Message to all those that aren't using a HUD, please feel free to continue doing so. Don't let Pascal and Stu Et al tell you what to do and how to play. They may not like it, but let me tell you... You're ALWAYS welcome at my table.

It actually benefits me if others dont use one. I like the fact that there are people who I will play against who will treat me a relative unknown. I dont want to change the status quo and I dont want you to start using a HUD.

I just dont believe in giving people bad advice. So when the question comes up, "should I use a HUD" I dont believe in playing down the advantage it gives even though it benefits me if people believe it dosent really offer an advantage.

You're ALWAYS welcome at my table.

You probably wouldnt know if I had been at your table or not... thats the whole point in HUDS

 

[Sven Deuceman]

I'm definitely not discouraging the use of a hud only trying point out one of the traps it could bring. Yes history does repeat itself so with that in mind it is helpful to know a players stats. By all means buster use one if you want to just try not to let it replace your own observational skill. Maybe when faced with a situation (raise ,reraise) take a second to think of what you would do without the info before checking it.
+1 graf- for the beginning player it can lead to worse play than learning without it

 

[only_bridge]

I have a new, faster puter now, maybe I should try this HUD thingy.

 

[dj11]

Sorry. I don't share your opinion. HUDs are the equivalent of stealing signs in baseball or video taping the opposing coaches.

All perfectly legal according to the rules..

Yes it may give you more info to make a decision. However, all I have seen ITT is people justifying bad decisions based on VPIP.

I don't need a HUD to make bad decisions.....

Go play live and see how well that HUD works for ya. Use your frickin brain for once and learn to read players and remember their patterns.

And wear a hoodie...and large overly dark sunglasses...

If you are 8+ tabling... even with a HUD you are just playing a video game.

Agree over 8 (4 in my case) it becomes robotic, and a whole lot less fun.

My point (if I have made one) is that HUDs are no magic bullet. They can provide you with detailed data about past play, but they do not make any decisions about what to do at the moment. They do allow your brain a bit of relaxation, not having to constantly calculate and flip pages thru unreadable notes and all, which in turns allows for playing more tables with less brainpower. Over time you multi-tablers will be training your mind (in a sense) about what gets played in which situations. Pavlovian mind training shall we say?:trytofly:

 

[Poker Orifice]

When I won the lottery I wasn't using a HUD.
My 'e-penis' is bigger than your's!

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

It actually benefits me if others dont use one. I like the fact that there are people who I will play against who will treat me a relative unknown. I dont want to change the status quo and I dont want you to start using a HUD.

Yeah, my post was sarcastic in that if people want to argue about not using a HUD, that's fine by me. Continue to not use one and come and sit at my table. If they want to give me a perfectly legal advantage, I'll happily let them.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Yeah, my post was sarcastic in that if people want to argue about not using a HUD, that's fine by me. Continue to not use one and come and sit at my table. If they want to give me a perfectly legal advantage, I'll happily let them.

Oh sorry.

I do the same thing, write something that's supposed to be taken as dry wit, but its so dry people take it literally. I think its because when you read it back yourself you read it in a voice that has the correct sarcastic tone.

 

[fugitive67]

I only play one table at a time and I don't use a HUD.

Personally, I'm not sure that it would necessarily give you an advantage against good players. Good players vary their play in response to specific situations and specific opponents. So everything might average out to show certain numbers in the HUD which have no real bearing on how that person actually plays.

But if you're curious, try it out and see if it helps, hinders, or neither. And let us know how it goes!

good players do vary their play esp. with regards to their table ... they play tight vs. an overly aggressive table and looser vs. a tight table

however, they still will show certain patterns ... like they might be easy to push off a hand like top pair b/c they do not want to play big pots or risk their tourney life on a beatable hand

information is always good ...

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Oh sorry.

I do the same thing, write something that's supposed to be taken as dry wit, but its so dry people take it literally. I think its because when you read it back yourself you read it in a voice that has the correct sarcastic tone.

Having read about half of the Rigged thread thus far, I'd bargain I know you better than you know me, so perhaps I should have been more blatant. It's never easy to tell sarcasm in print unless you know what the writer is like.

 

[dj11]

When I won the lottery I wasn't using a HUD.
My 'e-penis' is bigger than your's!

See the top of your display?
see the bottom of your display?

equates to my diameter.....................:call:--<hey babe!

 

[arahel_jazz]

See the top of your display?
see the bottom of your display?

equates to my diameter.....................:call:--<hey babe!

The only problem with that is that you are being viewed in 640 x 480 res. Makes everything look bigger... :eviltongu

 

[fkucdaw0rld]

i've never been much of a multi-tabler so i never really felt like i could benefit from one..i could most definitely see how someone playing 8 or 9 or however many tables could need to use one....

 

[psy0nyd3]

When I won the lottery I wasn't using a HUD.
My 'e-penis' is bigger than your's!

See the top of your display?
see the bottom of your display?

equates to my diameter.....................:call:--<hey babe!

The only problem with that is that you are being viewed in 640 x 480 res. Makes everything look bigger... :eviltongu

***Relavent to thread: I dont play with a hud right now either but if I had money to play I'd probably be using FPDB. It can't help me find leaks as much, but still it gives you a lot of the most common stats that you need.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

i've never been much of a multi-tabler so i never really felt like i could benefit from one..i could most definitely see how someone playing 8 or 9 or however many tables could need to use one....

I think even with one table it will add something to your game. A lot of people tend to just look at VPIP/PFR and see how tight/loose someone is but HUDs go a lot further than that, since a lot of the time you know if someone is merely tight or loose. Having information on how often a player folds to a c-bet, for example means you can isolate a limper. Seeing how often a player folds to or 3-bets a steal attempt. Seeing how often they steal themselves. They're all things you could probably see for yourself but having the stats to hand immediately in any given situation is very helpful. Not to mention the ability to look at your game after a session, post hands on forums for discussion and to look at your own stats and find leaks means that regardless of number of tables it can be very helpful.

 

[Pascal-lf]

While the above stats are really useful for cash games, couple of notes - just my opinions.

Ignore pretty much all stats apart from the most basic ones in MTTs. People change how they play depending on blind levels - a 60/0 over 100 hands may only ever limp to trap when they reach 10bb for example, in which case limp/fold or fold to cbet stats are going to mislead you.

Second point: sample sizes are just not big enough in MTTs unless its against a reg who you should be able to make notes on anyway. In cash games as well, if you have a tiny sample on someone (even 100 hands is a tiny sample) stats can be insanely misleading. I see people with a 50% 3bet over 100 hands for example, and then when you look again you realise they've actually only 3bet 2/4 times because thats the only time it's been raised in front of them (and not 3bet), and both times they might have had legitimate hands.

 

[RamdeeBen]

While the above stats are really useful for cash games, couple of notes - just my opinions.

Ignore pretty much all stats apart from the most basic ones in MTTs. People change how they play depending on blind levels - a 60/0 over 100 hands may only ever limp to trap when they reach 10bb for example, in which case limp/fold or fold to cbet stats are going to mislead you.

Second point: sample sizes are just not big enough in MTTs unless its against a reg who you should be able to make notes on anyway. In cash games as well, if you have a tiny sample on someone (even 100 hands is a tiny sample) stats can be insanely misleading. I see people with a 50% 3bet over 100 hands for example, and then when you look again you realise they've actually only 3bet 2/4 times because thats the only time it's been raised in front of them (and not 3bet), and both times they might have had legitimate hands.

Yeah I some times don't know what to make of them in MTT's for that very reason. Everyones play adjusts accordingly to blind level increases. I think they are useful for say the first hour of play, you can often see the donkeys who have played 50% of hands/ raised 30% and so and know in most cases your A,J/A,Q or good enough to ship on them with or whichever you see fit to play. Quite often these players play any Ace so you can take a ton of them.

Do you use a HUD pascal then? I do, until the later stages because I find it effects how I would play if I know their stats even though I know their ranges are going to be a lot wider as the blinds increase but I can't help but let it effect a raise in front of me if I'm holding A,J for example, I Feel I'm beat yet should be shipping with my current blinds! :<

 

[The Gent]

I use a HUD, very simple stats just Hands, VPIP & PFR cos I am lazy and don't pay as much attention as I should when playing.

 

[Pascal-lf]

Do you use a HUD pascal then? I do, until the later stages because I find it effects how I would play if I know their stats even though I know their ranges are going to be a lot wider as the blinds increase but I can't help but let it effect a raise in front of me if I'm holding A,J for example, I Feel I'm beat yet should be shipping with my current blinds! :<

I'd be a bit lost without a HUD me, but rely on VPIP/PFR/aggression factor above all else and rarely use any other stats even though I probably should. I think the showdown stats like how often they go to showdown and how often they win pots at showdown has the potential to be really useful, but I just don't know how to interpret it yet.

 

[Kanivision]

It depends on how many tables you play. Sure if you are mass multi tabling then it's handy as you can't keep track of players stats and who's likely to shove with garbage etc, calling to many pots pre flop etc. I find it brilliant for that and knowing who you can call a raise off or re-raise with and just out play them so easily.

If you only play 1-4 tables I don't think the advantage is that huge as you can process most of what happens quite easily even with 4 tables on the go.

 

[dj11]

A HUD is to a poker hand, as a hammer is to a nail.

The HUD reminds you of a players tendencies, how he will or might act in a situation. All of those things that you could be distracting yourself with by taking proper notes.

A hammer reminds you of pounding nails into wood for those 3 long years using only your hand, which can not now open to hold live cards anymore.

Moral of story, use the proper tools and protect your hands.

 

[poudie]

Not sure what you mean 'in real time'? It's similiar to PT3 & HEM but has a few million tracked hands (or more).
I've never met anyone who's used it who didn't know it was against the rules (they tell you it is on their site but then profess that it'll go undetected by the pokersites).

I like playing with HUD. I basically try to separate the tight from maniac players. I believe this gives me an edge. I also try to watch my HUD as well and play different hands to muddle the waters.

 

[CheckraiseLife]

The HUD makes the game alot more intresting to me, I can tinker around and really give myself a massive edge...and isnt that what poker is all about *edges*

huds are not the same as cheating since your using every hand YOU played with your opponents your just keeping them in a nice big easy to use filling cabinet.

however when people start buying hand histories or start using data they never collected them selves
(poker edge) THEN IT IS CERTAINLY CHEATING.

 

[Roller]

Equal for one Equal for all.

Problem is everyone is not using a HUD therefore it is not equal for all.

simple thoughts - nothing more ....

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Equal for one Equal for all.

Problem is everyone is not using a HUD therefore it is not equal for all.

simple thoughts - nothing more ....

Not everyone reads about poker. Should casinos be forced to hand out free books for those who haven't bought one already?

 

[Poker Orifice]

Not sure what you mean 'in real time'? It's similiar to PT3 & HEM but has a few million tracked hands (or more).
I've never met anyone who's used it who didn't know it was against the rules (they tell you it is on their site but then profess that it'll go undetected by the pokersites).

I like playing with HUD. I basically try to separate the tight from maniac players. I believe this gives me an edge. I also try to watch my HUD as well and play different hands to muddle the waters.

huh?
I don't see how your response relates to the quote? My post was in reference to 'PokerEdge' (not > an edge in poker).