rj_montana
Visionary
Silver Level
It's only displaying information that's otherwise available to you. Every player can benefit from using a free HUD such as Hand2Note. You don't need to do anything special or even understand all of the features; just a quick glance at the most basic default stats before you make an action will help improve results -
Example, holding JJ and facing a 4-bet shove all in. Maybe you're inclined to call - then you take a glance at the HUD and see this player has some ridiculously low raise frequency. I once saw a guy with like 0.6 over a decent sample. Well those jacks hit the muck.
Example, holding JJ and facing a 4-bet shove all in. Maybe you're inclined to call - then you take a glance at the HUD and see this player has some ridiculously low raise frequency. I once saw a guy with like 0.6 over a decent sample. Well those jacks hit the muck.
BUSB0Y
Rock Star
Silver Level
After reading every reply, the disagreement lies in how one defines "cheating." If you cannot redefine the definition of "cheating" in your mind, either way, no agreement can come of this.
While I myself use a HUD (pokertracker4) on ACR and prefer sites that allow them, I know there are sites that prohibit them.
So in actuality if you force a HUD on a site that prohibits them in its TOS, it would be considered cheating.
In once instance it's cheating, in another, it's not.
If you somehow have a HUD that works at a live table, that would probably be cheating. I think that one is a real grey area.
It's really a philosophical grey area on how a society and industry define the word "cheating."
It comes down to defining things.
People argue with their emotions.
Some sites allow it and some sites don't. If you don't like them, go to a site that does not allow it.
While I myself use a HUD (pokertracker4) on ACR and prefer sites that allow them, I know there are sites that prohibit them.
So in actuality if you force a HUD on a site that prohibits them in its TOS, it would be considered cheating.
In once instance it's cheating, in another, it's not.
If you somehow have a HUD that works at a live table, that would probably be cheating. I think that one is a real grey area.
It's really a philosophical grey area on how a society and industry define the word "cheating."
It comes down to defining things.
People argue with their emotions.
Some sites allow it and some sites don't. If you don't like them, go to a site that does not allow it.
jcxmendes
Visionary
Platinum Level
in my opinion the HUD is not cheating, this tool is available to all who want to use, those who use this HUD with an advantage over those who do not use! I do not use computers as game and I think unnecessary!
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LedZeffelin
Rock Star
Silver Level
Its really not the huds that make the difference. It's the anonymity. But once you take away the anonymity, you take away the oversight.
kraemer
Visionary
Silver Level
I would like to see you tell me the exact percentage of CO steals a player has made after you played for an hour with 6 tables open at the same time
Apart from some autists no human can do that... And the games are even to fast to note all moves manually to look them up later.
So i would consider it cheating, because you get access to information that you would never have if you were not using a HUD... A human brain simply cannot store perfect copies of half a million poker hands and calculate the stats of a certain player out of them in the 15 seconds you have to make a decision in online poker.
But since poker sites allow these programs it would be stupid not to use them if you play poker for profit...
I'm waiting for someone to create a live poker HUD... People are allowed to have their phones at the table... Use the phone camera and face recognition to find out who you are playing against and get the stats from a database created out of all poker hands ever streamed or televised...
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BasTid
Rock Star
Silver Level
No, not at all. If you play a hand then you have every right to record it and if you can put that data together well for you!
I think sites will eventually make it so that HUD's can't be used but until then no I don't consider it cheating.
If you don't want people using HUD's plays on somewhere like unibet
I think sites will eventually make it so that HUD's can't be used but until then no I don't consider it cheating.
If you don't want people using HUD's plays on somewhere like unibet
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pokersport88
Rising Star
Bronze Level
HUD is form of cheating
Its like a athlete who is usually on par with his peers but because he has the means or access to hormones he get that small edge to win an event. A no no if caught!
By you being able to see how a person played a hand you gain knowledge or an advantage and over a small advantage gets magnified just like compound interest grows over time!!!!!!!!
Bots should not be used.
Its like a athlete who is usually on par with his peers but because he has the means or access to hormones he get that small edge to win an event. A no no if caught!
By you being able to see how a person played a hand you gain knowledge or an advantage and over a small advantage gets magnified just like compound interest grows over time!!!!!!!!
Bots should not be used.
AllenKll
Rock Star
Silver Level
That's not really the HUD though, it is? That's just reviewing your hand histories. A HUD is not needed for that.
As for do I think it's cheating? No. You can take notes IRL, you can watch others play and record similar stats, should you wish to.
Also, it's a tool most anyone can use, so you gain no real advantage.
I've tried it a few times, but I've never found it useful. This may be because I play mostly tournaments. I suppose if you have a regular table, with regular players that you can gather decent stats on... maybe it might be useful? but even then if they're all regulars, you know how they play anyway.
I had an idea for an aggregated HUD. It has a master database of players in the cloud, and all hands seen are uploaded to it, then any player using that HUD could see genuine long term data for any player that has been playing long term against other users of that HUD. Sort of like a pooling of knowledge.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
It is obviously not cheating to use software, which is allowed by the poker room. Some poker rooms allow the use of HUDs, others do not. So maybe its fair to let it influence your choise of poker room, if you dont like HUDs. But please reserve the word "cheating" for people, who actually break the TOS of the poker site.
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neptun1914
Legend
Silver Level
Using HUD is definitely not cheating. One of the big differences between online and live poker is that online you have hand history. Everybody have this information and not using it for training or during game is simply giving edge to the other players. HUD is tool that reads this information and displays it in the form of statistics over every player on the table. HUD does not calculate ranges, equity or so on and do not provide such information. HUD do not tell you how to play. HUD is just a tool that everybody can use (there are also free ones) displaying information that everybody have (hand history based statistics). So HUD is definitely not cheating.
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EarnDAStack
Visionary
Bronze Level
Anything that is known to the market isn’t cheating. If you decide not to use one you’ll be at a disadvantage to those who do in many cases, but that’s a decision you have chose to make. Same as studying and other software. If you don’t want to make the investment don’t get upset at those who are
akgross
Legend
Platinum Level
Programs help the player understand the intended statistics of another player’s actions. Many are accustomed to playing according to statistics, and without these data it is difficult for them to make a decision. Pro players play without a program; on the desktop, it bothers them.
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EarnDAStack
Visionary
Bronze Level
Many Pros play both with and without a HUD depending on the site. Numerous top tier poker schools and courses give you HUD stats to work with/from. Suggesting someone is worse at poker because they use a HUD is dumb
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LedZeffelin
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yes. HUDs read the villain;s cards. Actually I think that's silly and I believe cheating is rampant at ACR where HUDs are allowed.
However, at least with HUDS, minds smarter than me can track cheating, Without HUDs and anonymous players. The house can do ANYTHING with impunity!!!!
In a fair game, a HUD is little more than what people with good memories or who take notes can do in a live game. Since I cant read my own writing, I think a HUD is as fair as it gets.
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ramignis
Rock Star
Silver Level
the use of poker bots is prohibited in all poker rooms. many of them of course use just helpers or auxiliary programs but in a game against competent opponents they will not help you much if you do not know how to use them correctly
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MahkHaatz
Rising Star
Bronze Level
If the site you play on allows any kind of tracker, you might as well use it. Poker players will look to gain whatever edge they can, whether at the live table or online.
If you had some sort of system that was able to identify the other players cards, then of course that's cheating, but if all it is giving you is their betting stats, its fair game.
If you had some sort of system that was able to identify the other players cards, then of course that's cheating, but if all it is giving you is their betting stats, its fair game.
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SouthernCroix
Enthusiast
Silver Level
It gives people an edge, I suppose mainly for the purposes of multitabling inorder to make quick decisions, however, it does not necessarily mean that a person will still beat you, there is always human ego and error. I play micro stakes and theres always a couple of guys on all tables, if you watch them for a while it becomes pretty obvious that they are using HUD. What you can do is take stock of how you've been playing against them if your a single table player like me and exploit their responses based on the data you reckon they have on you, you wont make big profits but its enough to keep them from farming your cents.