Ragequit
Rock Star
Silver Level
The real question is: Does it work if I don't use a HUD? I personally think they are essential tools for online success. I understand that some people dislike them and are against them but online we cannot SEE our opponents. We don't have physical tells we can use to get clues. So we need to track ranges instead. HUDs make this possible. I feel blind without mine.
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Smokewood
Visionary
Silver Level
BS - they scan everyone's hand histories and build a database of all players' activities. You can see all the fish and where they are before you even sit down.
It is cheating, plain and simple.
Jane Franklin
Enthusiast
Silver Level
HUD makes me as a robot. I m playing not creative. People around me are just robots... But people and you -- they are not robots. Yes, it s good to understand the main pattern BUT it could make you as a robotic player
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roddy1977
Enthusiast
Silver Level
No, it isn't 'BS' as you so charmingly put it. Standard HUDs, as used by PT and HEM, only show stats from hands you've played against other players. It simply represents a time saving device - any player could work out the stats that HUDs display from their own hand histories, it would just take ages. Is that cheating? Not in the way you describe. You are confusing HUDs with table scanning software.
Ragequit
Rock Star
Silver Level
Do you honestly think that? Why would poker sites allow HUDs if it was cheating. They only ban real time analysis tools that actually tell you what to do during hands. Anything that calculates real time EV is strictly prohibited. HUDs like HM2 and PT4 only tell you ranges of hands that people use for certain behaviours. The players THEMSELVES then have to use their brain to make good decisions. I don't see how that is cheating.
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Ragequit
Rock Star
Silver Level
It sounds more like you either didn't know how to use a HUD or couldn't get one set up for some reason. So you're putting them down because you felt that you were at a disadvantage at the tables. You therefore needed to level the playing field for yourself by only playing on anonymous tables. If you took the time to look into HUDs properly you would find some very good games indeed. If hand histories are cheating, does that mean I'm cheating every time I remember that you 3Bet me with {AK KK+}?
Think about it.
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roddy1977
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Heads Up Display (I think!)
Ragequit
Rock Star
Silver Level
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roddy1977
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Smokewood is objecting to players using software that shows stats based on a player's entire hand history, seemingly failing to grasp that PT4 and HM2 - ie standard HUDs - use stats based only on your own hand histories. Personally I would regard the former as cheating, not the latter.
By confining himself to playing on anonymous player sites he is missing out on one of the best aspects of 'real' poker - playing against players you've played before and the metagame involved. HUDs, combined with note taking, provide an excellent source of reference and a very convenient way of summarising your past experiences against a particular player. The thing he most fears - encountering players with access to stats of all the hands he's ever played - is strictly prohibited on PS, and probably all big name poker sites.
Ragequit
Rock Star
Silver Level
I never had access to EVERY hand someone has ever played. Only the ones I have personally been involved in with them. Years ago the system used to allow data mining by players who were not even sat at the table. Obviously that is unacceptable and I'm glad they stopped it. I just completely disagree with the statement from Smokewood that HUDs = Cheating because that simply isn't true. If pokerstars,888 and ACR thought that HUDs gave anyone an advantage over others then they would already be banned. Rational Group spend billions on digital security every year. It is not in their financial interest to allow players to behave dishonestly.
Ragequit
Rock Star
Silver Level
Agreed. I was just a little offended earlier. I use a HUD and I work very hard on my game every day. So to have someone imply HUDs are for cheaters is a little insulting. I am sure that others reading that post may feel similar as a large number of online pros use them.
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roddy1977
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I'm in complete agreement with you, it's hard not to be offended when someone implies you are cheating, or calls one's opinion 'BS'. There are rather more civilised ways of expressing an alternative opinion!
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pokersextreme
Rock Star
Silver Level
PHX
Legend
Loyaler
HUD provide information most players if on one table only would be able to deduce and remember same information. Many of us multi-table and multi-task when playing online so HUD store this handy information for us that we can use when we need it.
HUD only provide information from hands played it is up to player to use this information to their advantage to aid in decision making. Poker is a game of incomplete information the more information we have the better our decision making decisions should become.
Of course having all the information does not guarantee the right decision will be made. Information is many times limited and misleading e.g if you in a mtt and move to a new table 5 hands will not be enough of a sample size to base a decision on.
Also different players interpret the same information differently. e.g. a raise from player with VPIP: 10 PFR: 5 (most would consider this player tight); some players would fold marginal hands pre flop because it is a raise from a tight player, other players would look to take a flop and try and bluff on later streets because it is a tight player.
Conclusion to answer the question directly:
HUD purpose is to provide information and hands previously played with opponent at your fingertips that can aid you in your decision making. If you view it from this standpoint HUD work.
If you believe a HUD will magically improve your game and having all the information will solve all the problems in game you will be mistaken and HUD will not work for you. Having the information is the easy part the real test is how you use the information.
HUD only provide information from hands played it is up to player to use this information to their advantage to aid in decision making. Poker is a game of incomplete information the more information we have the better our decision making decisions should become.
Of course having all the information does not guarantee the right decision will be made. Information is many times limited and misleading e.g if you in a mtt and move to a new table 5 hands will not be enough of a sample size to base a decision on.
Also different players interpret the same information differently. e.g. a raise from player with VPIP: 10 PFR: 5 (most would consider this player tight); some players would fold marginal hands pre flop because it is a raise from a tight player, other players would look to take a flop and try and bluff on later streets because it is a tight player.
Conclusion to answer the question directly:
HUD purpose is to provide information and hands previously played with opponent at your fingertips that can aid you in your decision making. If you view it from this standpoint HUD work.
If you believe a HUD will magically improve your game and having all the information will solve all the problems in game you will be mistaken and HUD will not work for you. Having the information is the easy part the real test is how you use the information.
Ragequit
Rock Star
Silver Level
I'm sorry but HUDs cannot read hole cards. If I know that a player flop cbets 65% of the time then I know they have some bluffs in their continuing range. But the same is true if I'm sitting at a live table and I can see they're betting the flop quite a bit. My ability to read that situation isn't provided by the HUD. For another example if I know a player 3Bets me with 8% of their hands then that looks like {88+ AJ+ QJs+ } Approx. There are still 15 different hands with 98 combos for me to think about. The HUD would also show an 8% 3Bet range if that player re-raised me with {22+ ATs+ KQs}. It would again show an 8% range if they were doing it with {66+, 87s-AKs, K3s, Q4s, J5s, T6s}. My point is, the HUD hasn't told me their exact hand or whether they are bluffing or not. I MUST DECIDE THIS. Based on my observations of that player and my Poker skills. The HUD only shows that an 8% chunk of hands is being used for that action. AND that information is OLD. The 3bet range I will be looking at is from the previous time they 3Bet. This means their range is actually slightly wider than what is showing on the HUD. This is because real-time information is not allowed. A HUD is only a notepad which writes down old ranges that would take us too long in-game. A live player with a very good memory is just as dangerous. Should they be banned?
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Nikolay Nakhaev
Legend
Silver Level
HUD has just started to study, I want to apply it when analyzing my mistakes during the game. Successfully playing without him and other helpers, software.
what are your main positions in the HUD for tournaments? statistical data
what are your main positions in the HUD for tournaments? statistical data
PHX
Legend
Loyaler
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neptun1914
Legend
Silver Level
HUD just groups information that you already have (via the hand history files created by the poker client) and shows it in convenient way to you during gameplay. Final decision what to do is still up to you. This is not cheating and in my opinion it is worth to take your time and learn how to use hud properly. It is not a magic formula to drastically improve your game but it is very useful to analyze your own gameplay and take correct decision when in coin flip situations. Especially if you multi table.
Ragequit
Rock Star
Silver Level
Exactly, the images in the picture I uploaded above show 4 examples of a 20% range which I used Flopzilla to illustrate. Now obviously two of these are ridiculous depictions. But they show the core of what I've been saying. Knowing a percentage of hands is one thing. Having the ability to deduce what range of hands are in that percentage is where the skill lies. HUDs are not cheating! (Drops the mic)
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