VERY SERIOUSLY QUESTION require only SERIOUS REAL ANSWERS

[begley01]

Suing anyone outside of the United States is extremely difficult unless you are from there. You will likely never win making the high expense of suing them not worth it. Other nations aren't held to the same standards as companies are held in side the US. So you have no idea what their laws on torts or law suits are. I would just let it go.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

According to their press release from 12/2/08 they have:

yeah but according to their previous press releases there was no problem to start with (twice), it was they who discovered the problem in the first place (lol no), and it was a disgruntled former employee who was behind it (lol russ).

so forgive me if i'm inclined to not believe them.

 

[Zorba]

yeah but according to their previous press releases there was no problem to start with (twice), it was they who discovered the problem in the first place (lol no), and it was a disgruntled former employee who was behind it (lol russ).

so forgive me if i'm inclined to not believe them.

So are you saying poker sites are rigged.

 

[serendipity]

And I mentioned nothing about Ultimate Bet. My point was that AP never paid back all the money that was cheated. They couldn't!

If you have read the story, when the scammers saw that the gig was up, they went on AP and purposely lost hundreds of thousands of dollars to try to cover up their actions. So the money was not there to pay all the people back who had been scammed over so much time.

Nay, in fact AP paid back a little money, did an internal investigation, said they had corrected the problem, and that was that. They still to this day refuse to say exactly what was stolen, what was paid back, or even the identity of the thief. I really want to point this out not to argue, but because this is not the first thread where I have read that AP came clean on this scandal - they didn't!

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

Other nations aren't held to the same standards as companies are held in side the US.

Did you hear the rumour that Citibank may be gone by June this year?

 

[bbc008]

lots of dumb replies.....i guess serious doesnt mean anything.....

but yea...for someone that's on top of his game....it's FT

im just wondering......they're made up of all those pro poker players....

how in the world would u go sueing them??

anywhere u look on their site, u can't find out any ACTUALL address unless it's e-mail

there's no phone number to reach except a (if u have problems depositing) number....and even if u reach that...they wont answer any other questions

so HOW DO YOU SUE THEM????

just curious....don't think i'll have the budget to do that....but HOW??

here's kinda the circumstance:

3 roommates....using FT

1 left an skip town about 1 month ago

2 other roommates kept playing on FT for about 2 more months
the 2 roommates have never withdraw...always making deposits....

coming towards Christmas, roommate A needs money
roommate B owes A money

roommate B then transfers $800 to A's account
then roommate A tried to do a withdraw for the FIRST time (cause they kinda suck and never has withddrawn)

2 days later, both their accounts are closed
both roommate A and B writes to FT

they get response saying under investigation
they read more into FT rules.....and they think it might be about how many people under the same household......

they write back to FT cause after 1 week there's no reply
A get no response
B gets a response saying if he can't wait they can send him the money

keep in mind, A is withdrawing $800
B has $2.15 or so left

Ft response to B is simply it takes time, if u can't wait, we'll just send u the money left in the account

in the meantime.....A, after about 15 e-mails....get NO RESPONSE....ABSOLUTELY NONE

A has deposited over $2,000.....but can't get a response cause he's trying to withdraw the $800 left in the account

SO ANYONE HAS SUGGESTION????

and to DM.....very sharp!
it was about 3-4 posting i think out of about 20-25???
so not 85%..........
but....that was GOOD....really!.....maybe except for ur first reponse which was ; so what was ur question??

 

[Zorba]

lots of dumb replies.....i guess serious doesnt mean anything.....
but yea...for someone that's on top of his game....it's FT
im just wondering......they're made up of all those pro poker players....
so how in the world would u go sueing them??

Firstly, titling your post VERY SERIOUSLY QUESTION is like inviting a few funny replies, and I'm sure all of the above posts were Very Seriously well thought out.
As far as how to sue them, they must have a case to answer, it's not just that you want to sue them and ( ka ching) you can sue them, See a solicitor, tell them the exact truth, they might check things out and tell you "yes we can sue them, and while were investigating its going to cost you BIG Dollars", but more than likely they will Very Seriously tell you to forget about it and still charge you for their time, Very Seriously.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

Poker companies that operate in the US market need to have an extremely complex set-up, due to the complex anti-gambling laws there, and this was demonstrated when one of their pros tried to take legal action against them recently:

In the amended thirty three page complaint filed on January 22nd by Gowen’s attorneys, Howard & Howard, Attorneys PLLC of Las Vegas, two defendants have been added to the litany of companies that allegedly comprise the Full Tilt operation. Pocket Kings Consulting, Ltd. of Ireland and Tiltproof, Inc. of Ireland - which allegedly respectively run the operations of Full Tilt and the customer service segment of the organization - bring the number of defendants in the case to twenty, including other companies that make up the remainder of the organization and the players who are billed as official members of "Team Full Tilt"

More importantly, as Nick has pointed out, you would need a good case against them. My guess would be that Full Tilt suspect some wrong-doing by members of your household, either by one of you or by the person that previously did a runner. Make sure that you tell your lawyer the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth! If for example it came out in court that you two (or three) had been colluding in games, and you hadn't told your lawyer about it beforehand, you would be laughed out of court and would have lost thousands of dollars in legal fees in the process.

My advice would be to wait and see what Full Tilt come back with.

 

[bbc008]

the 2 of us are rookies at poker.....we dont even know the meaning of colluding in a game means until we look it up

like i said, this is the FIRST time we made a withdraw
so does it even sound like we're doing any kinda cheating?

but the WORSE thing is FT just wont respond to A
but replies to B within 2 days....

A just keeps asking"what happened to my withdraw request?"
...................silence............for almost 3 months

B keeps asking and telling the respond e-mail that A is writing but can't get a response.and heres a couple of their response:
-=-==-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=---=-
1)Thank you for contacting full tilt poker Support.

Please be advised that for privacy and security reasons we cannot disclose information related to other player's account.

The account holder needs to contact us from the email address registered on the account with the issues to resolve.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation. If you have any other questions, please feel free to email us. We're always here to help.
-=--=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=
2) another one


You may ask your room-mate to contact us from the email address registered to his Full Tilt Poker account, and we will be able to answer any queries raised by him in relation to the withdrawal of funds.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=--=-=--=-
Yes...A did use his own e-mail address registered to the account.
...........they just won't reply.........so now what?

wait until the next Christmas to see if they'll reply??

 

[aliengenius]

Here is a site that you might appeal to for some sort of mediation.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

It doesn't really make sense, if Full Tilt weren't willing to pay people out they would go out of business, word about things like that spreads like wildfire on the internet. So I can only really think of two possibilities:

1) You aren't telling us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

2) Your friend is confused about which email address was used for the sign up at Full Tilt.

 

[smd173]

Call Clonie Gowen, she knows how to sue Full Tilt. LOL

 

[dropdead1]

OK people.....

I would like to sue an online poker place.....

1) They are not listed in the US

2) They have no phone number you can call unless it's regarding deposit,then they have an 1-800 you can call!

3) No where on their website can i find ANY address unless it's an email

4) Their support claims to be 24/7......but i haven't heard from them in 2 months

5) Im not no BIG NAME poker player.....can't afford a BIG TIME lawyer.....I asked my small time lawyer friend.....he just tells me to kiss my money goodbye.

Does this sound like you?? or VERY similar??

PLEASE no responses like

1) WTF
2) oh that sux
3) which place is this?
4) oh ur so fxxkxx

thank you

The only thing I can recommend is reporting the casino/poker room to the casinomeister and let him do all the work. Then get on with your life!

 

[gn2056]

I am not an attorney however I have taken business law and my brother is an attorney. Conceivably, if there was no contract stating which country's law takes presidence over matters like this it can get very dicey, in regards to jurisdiction. For instance you could possibly sue in Americann court and they could defend themselves in whatever country they are in leading to a single case with its own nations law applied.

Honestly, your best bet with a pokersite is to take your own precautions and for instance if depositing by credit card you can dispute the charges and have your funds returned to your card months later, which I actually did succesfully with Ultimate bet for some of the money they screwed me out of. The card company pretty much always gives you the benefit of the doubt since the card companys absolutely hate the online gaming industry and its not currently legal officialy. Being that these companys operate over sees and function semi-illegaly they have no course of action to take other then to ban you from their site. They all use one ficticious creditor but they cant even apply it to your credit report.

One more thing, a court in America wont hear a civil case if it is in regards to the plaintiff doing anything illegal. Regardless if its ethically right or wrong you couldnt sue somebody for stealing your stash of pot. So that being the case I doubt that you could really sue, but as I stated before if you have deposited by credit card and feel you are being wronged you have the option of disputing the chargers, just dont plan on ever going back to that site.

If you really have your heart set on a legal remedy I suggest scowering the for the licensing agreement somewhere in there it should say how disputes are to be resolved, they may have a forum or something set up. honestly good luck and i hope it works out for you.

 

[dj11]

One of the reasons for the UIEGA (sp?) was the transfer of money to terrorists. It actually could have happened easily before the UEIGA (sp?).

So think about these situations from any Poker Sites POV.

They all want online poker legitimized in the US. They are doing things which will enhance their image to lawmakers when things change. And even if things never change, they are doing things that do no more damage.

So the shenanigans you describe could easily be seen as an attempted end around to policies (stated or unstated) that FT has. But really, all sites operating in the US are going to have similar policies. This particular policy seems to have started sometime last summer, when it was reported that quick withdrawals after a player to player transfer got stalled in 'investigation'.

$800 is not trivial, We actually do feel your pain. We would all suggest you not get pissed, but rather try a co-operative stance in trying to help FT sort this out.

From the info you provide, I think it would cost you $100,000 to get your $800. If ever a prop was -EV, this is.

 

[gn2056]

I didnt realize it was at full tilt, they are probably the site I would trust most in legal matters. It was my understanding that they would probably warn you first if it was some minor infraction, I would email support from my own email address and ask them how to remedy the situation, at worst I think you should be able to get your money back and be banned from the site.

I just checked out their site and the thing that scares me is in regards to collusion all decisions of the management are final, not that would hold any water in any courtroom as there has to be an appeal process of some sort. So anywho you must appeal to them and explain you exact situation, I cant imagine them not at some point releasing your funds unless you have a crapload of evidence and repeated warnings. Get on it, be apologetic and sincere and see where it takes you. You should be able to get some sort of review by the management if nothing else, as the previous poster stated even if you could sue it wouldnt be worth it. However, if Full Tilt is considered a legitimate business in the state your in you could simply file a small claim for 800 bux plus the court costs and see what happens.

 

[PC69]

HAHAHA I GOT HALFWAY DOWN READING THESE POSTS AND IAM YAWNING ALREADY..

 

[bbc008]

I KNOW......a big company like that.....why would $800 mean that much to them??
i dont get it either....but it's the truth....especially about how they will reply to 1 but not the other.....

i mean.....at least tell me what's going on??????
but the colluding u guys are talking about.....nope....dont even know what it means b4.....

I just wish FT would send my money......i dont have to make up stupid story about Ft cheating us.....to me...it's kinda sad that they would do something like that....if anything...why dont they just send me my ending balance....and close my account.....
but to not reply....i reallly think it's low!!!

i can post up maybe 10 of my e-mails!!!....i'm thinking about going to BAY 101 when they have the Shooting star and look for FT people!!!!

 

[WCFields]

Other nations aren't held to the same standards as companies are held in side the US.

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

As we post individuals and teams of employees from unregulated financial institutions are scamming billions ala Bernie Madoff and other insider shenanigans.

That's why it is so ridiculous to think online poker isn't programming scamming under the guise/cover of randomization.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

I KNOW......a big company like that.....why would $800 mean that much to them??
i dont get it either....but it's the truth....especially about how they will reply to 1 but not the other.....

i mean.....at least tell me what's going on??????
but the colluding u guys are talking about.....nope....dont even know what it means b4.....

I just wish FT would send my money......i dont have to make up stupid story about Ft cheating us.....to me...it's kinda sad that they would do something like that....if anything...why dont they just send me my ending balance....and close my account.....
but to not reply....i reallly think it's low!!!

i can post up maybe 10 of my e-mails!!!....i'm thinking about going to BAY 101 when they have the Shooting star and look for FT people!!!!

If they are talking to B, and not A, why not transfer all the money from account A to account B, and then account B try to withdraw it all?

 

[pfb8888]

i think the problem lies within your trio ... trying to withdraw probably triggered an investigation into the 3 accounts .

did you all have separate accounts and did any of you have access to the others accounts?

did you all play on separate computers?

do you still have contact with the guy who moved out?

and finally could the guy still there be lying about getting the money?maybe he gambled it and is blaming things on ft or the guy who left town.

 

[bbc008]

yes we all used separate computers, and we all used our own accounts
and no there is no lying about withdrawing.....
why not transfer??
they closed all of our accounts!!!
but let me say again...whatever the doubt or question about this situation.......
the BIGGEST PROBLEM is :

THEY WON'T RESPOND
THEY WON'T RESPOND
THEY WON'T RESPOND

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

keep in mind, A is withdrawing $800
B has $2.15 or so left

Ft response to B is simply it takes time, if u can't wait, we'll just send u the money left in the account

Another theory then, because what we are being told here really doesn't tie in with what most people here have experienced with FT. Maybe your friend that is trying to withdraw the $800 is not telling you the truth, and actually WAS paid the $800 but doesn't want you to know about it :questionm :questionm
There has to be a rational explanation...

 

[pfb8888]

if they wont respond they probably think you were colluding

they take that very seriously

-did you ever play at the same time or was there only one line?
-also do you have contact with the guy who left?
-did any of the three of you set up multiple accounts?
-maybe they think it was one person setting up 3 accounts (many have tried and succeeded in the past but eventually were found out) you have to prove your innocence..
- try going through the first of the accounts opened--thats why they kept asking for the specific email account?

it may not seem fair that one or two of you are punished for the actions of the third ...or that the three of you are labeled as cheaters...but people have been trying to cheat and take shortcuts and multiaccount for bonuses and anything suspicious will get your account suspended or terminated.

they suspended my account because they thought i was using illegal software...but it was because i went from roadrunner to dial up and was trying to play at multiple poker sites and running slower..but i was patient and not abusive even though i was upset and after a few days they reinstated me

 

[WolfShadow]

so have u found out why they cut u off, cause its hard to give any serious answer without knowing why .