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CAMurray
CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
It is not random, it's what known as pseudo random. Its very close but the answer is no.
The link below will explain visually with the least amount of programming knowledge.
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http://boallen.com/random-numbers.html
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The link below will explain visually with the least amount of programming knowledge.
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http://boallen.com/random-numbers.html
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
after playin many live games here in england and in las vegas , live play with a real set of cards , unless fixed by the dealer is legit ,
but unfortunately, from , my experience of playing day in day out day after day hr after hr hand after had , the crack in the curtains show them selves in , on line poker ,, i call the dealers non random randy !!
ok so you have read all the books , by slansky ect and no all the odds good ok
next you play hands pre flop on the flop or on any hand for that matter and if ur atall intelligent you know ur odds , so what i have found on 95percent of hands is :-
when playin loose against 1v1 player they always hit , everytime ,
when playin tight they suck out
when after flop u got over card pocket pair they suck out
AFTER raisin 8 times big blind in micro (ok) called by utter pants say 28 they hit when u got two pair they make the straight and more and more hand after hand
after 4 days of playing , and with the right odds in my favour , big favour the p take has gone to far ,
you can say , stop wingeing , its bad beats , or , ur rubbish at poker \
but the fact of the matter is if you play with the odds in your favour on any street and every time u get beat some thing is up , its a fix its rigged ,, they want , u to reload , reload agaon , u can argue that they want only the rake , but fact is they want ur reload , and if i had recorded the last 6 days of playing on camera , u would understand , do the math
and i guess would say i am the unluckiest play in the world ,
poo par , , the math dont lie
every hand (ok 95 % ) , forces u to fold , because u know and believe me i played thousand s of hands , thousands ,,
each time they thit or suck out
its ok 4 a bit after u reload but after u got a bit of rake back they cain u
done deal witnessed , evidence not recorded , take my word im a friend of jesus
one last thing i got the hand history if u want to examine
Wow....Yep, you got it figured-out. No way in hell someone could legitimately have a losing streak that lasts 4 whole days
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Ezekiel162
Visionary
Silver Level
Thank you for this link. Very interesting. So instead of most people stating the algorithms are "rigged" maybe I can sum it up succinctly by stating that they are "flawed" because that IS what I believe...
So I can honestly now join the "flawed-tard" camp and sport my colors proudly because anyone that can state NOTHING can ever be flawed needs to make a recording of themself and play to back to see how stupid THEY sound...
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
What
, actually an interesting topic in a rigtard thread? Say it ain't so . That site, while interesting, lacks any specific instances or applications of TRNGs v. PRNGs. It was my understanding that most (all?) poker sites are, in fact, using TRNGs based upon just such things as atmospheric noise, etc, etc. All that site is really telling you is that PRNGs exist. Nothing earth-shattering there. It makes no mention or assertion that they are used by poker sites.
JOEBOB69
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I do in fact may have a picture of a card from a casino.I may be able to post a pic of this card with the corner cut off of it.It can prove with it's high tech fibers that if it can change from number values/suites.Then the RNG is sure to be compromised.
CAMurray
CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
What
All that site is really telling you is that PRNGs exist. Nothing earth-shattering there. It makes no mention or assertion that they are used by poker sites.
I never attempt to shatter planets, but anybody who works through the initial 2 or 3 programming languages can tell you that there is no such thing as a Truly Random generator routine. There are some that come close but they ALL will show a pattern eventually. Only Mother Nature does True Random.
But is there "rigged" aspect, absolutely not, its not possible but can someone possibly see your cards? Oh yea. lol, thats possible.
Just because Im paranoid doesn't mean their not following me.
:listen:
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
Nice
. Epic rigtard thread. Actually the best I've ever read. Wish I could find the link to it easily to post here. Really, really good stuff (well, in as much as rigtard stuff can ever be good stuff).
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
Ok, so now I'm confused. Specifically, the site you directed us to in order to point out the existence of PRNGs also clearly states that TRNGs exist and gives at least one example of what a TRNG would use as a randomizing element.
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
No site publishes publicly their shuffling algorithm for what should be obvious reasons. It is open only to those outside auditing firms that are required for licensing.I'm going to assume that the RNG is one algorithm that passes it's output to let's say a shuffling algorithm that passes to a dealing algorithm... and so forth. If i'm wrong please correct if someone actually knows how these algorithm(s) work. In the end when most poker sites state that their RNG is verified, is this to include ALL the other assumed algorithms as well? THIS is a HONEST question, no sarcasm involved... just curious...
An RNG by itself does nothing but return a (pseudo) random value, so obviously it's only a component of a shuffling algorithm. There are a number of different ways to implement a shuffling algorithm, probably the most common and well-known being the Fisher-Yates shuffle and the variations thereof.
*sigh* I posted earlier the distinction between random and pseudo-random -- not sure why you're acting like what CAM posted is some sort of revelation. Anybody with a little bit of computer science knowledge should know this, it's CS101 stuff.
As I said, for all human intents and purposes, pseudo-random is random. No human can possibly tell the difference nor predict a pattern without access to the seed, the RNG algorithm, a computer to do the cracking, and the intelligence to use it. None of which, by the way, has anything to do with how random the cards you're getting are, but more to do with how crackable and thus predictable (as in someone knowing which cards are coming next) it is.
The greater the entropy involved in the seed, the stronger (i.e. least deterministic) the RNG. I explained this all above in my earlier post. You can rest assured that any modern RNG run by any reputable online poker site is not going to be running an amateur RNG implementation like the one someone mentioned that (LOL) starts with the number of seconds since 1/1/1970.
Really, you people questioning RNGs should read up on variance and sample sizes, invest in a tracker like PT or HM, and then run your own reports when you have >100K hands logged. You'll see for yourself that everything falls pretty much exactly where it should statistically speaking. Sure would be nice to see less rigtarded FUD being spread around.
Again: Technically, yes. Practically, not really. Modern RNGs intended for serious purposes use enough natural entropy that no supercomputer known to modern times could probably ever crack it. And what you say about repeating patterns would only be true if the RNG were never reseeded -- all modern RNGs re-seed themselves frequently from such a huge entropy pool that the statistical likelihood of repeating a seed and thus producing an identifiable pattern are infinitesimal. Again, in the grand scheme of things, randomly shuffling 52 cards is really really really trivial to do in a "truly" random fashion as far as humans are concerned.
What people don't seem to realize is that even a basic RNG is going to be far more random than a human dealer shuffling cards by hand. No reasonable amount of washing or riffling will completely eliminate clumps of cards, because they're physical media that just naturally sticks together. Numbers in a RNG don't stick together.
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CAMurray
CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Its not possible for me to explain here, why TR cannot be used within our game sites. Have faith, belivith in me and repentith your evil ways. Oh and send a check for $19.95 to Jarlith@imjustkidding.com
Night guys...
:dontknow:
Night guys...
:dontknow:
Ezekiel162
Visionary
Silver Level
The point is: I AGREED on alot, actually most, of what you had explained until you & WVH started tossing coconuts at me... After that you know the rest...
anyway...
I hear so many people that go for/against the "rigged" theory... fine... let's philosophize for a moment... no complex numbers
RIGGED - Site being manipulated by the DEVIL himself (Imperfection)
Flawed - Changes made to game to enhance play, Programmer errors, etc... whether intentional or non-intentional
NOT RIGGED - Site run by Jesus Christ and his disciples minus Judas Iscariot (Perfection)
Rigged/Non-Rigged Theories seem to follow the two above extremes. I choose the middle ground...
An obvious reason that some tend to to forget why a site might be supposedly "rigged" mainly stands out in my mind that if all the fish get demolished then there would be nothing but sharks to try and take money from. Ever try to take money from sharks on a repeated basis? Goes against the grain of what we were taught about profitability. Fish would go elsewhere knowing that they suck or quit in general...
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
So the issue isn't the existence of TRNGs, then, but rather their inability (for whatever reason) to be used in poker site applications? Like I said, this stuff is actually mildly interesting to me. Not interesting enough that I'll actually research it on my own, mind you .
Still, seems like giving more fodder to the rigtard masses. Not that that is a BAD thing, actually. I do enjoy a good rigtard thread now and again .
Oh and JB.... If you're gonna tease us.... POST THE LINK so that other rigtard afficianados can enjoy.....
.Still, seems like giving more fodder to the rigtard masses. Not that that is a BAD thing, actually. I do enjoy a good rigtard thread now and again
.Oh and JB.... If you're gonna tease us.... POST THE LINK so that other rigtard afficianados can enjoy.....
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
I give up. Really, I do.
The OP's question has been answered. Please go post your rigged theories, no matter how "middle of the road" they may be, in the thread we have for such nonsense. We try to keep it contained there so as not to contaminate the rest of the forum.
The OP's question has been answered. Please go post your rigged theories, no matter how "middle of the road" they may be, in the thread we have for such nonsense. We try to keep it contained there so as not to contaminate the rest of the forum.
JusSumguy
Chipmonger
Silver Level
Ezekiel... that's part of the indoctrination. Believe me, we've all got a few coconut bruises.
Think of it as a weather vane.
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JOEBOB69
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I was going to do a sick bump
But i see it has been locked ,like the "how do i play AA" thread
Damn i miss that thread
o enjoy
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/technology-used-cheat-casinos-197676/index8.html
Ezekiel162
Visionary
Silver Level
Sounds like a plan... This thread probably should have started there anyway. I really didn't know that these topics generated that much emotion from forum members...
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
I was going to do a sick bump
But i see it has been locked ,like the "how do i play AA" thread
Damn i miss that thread
o enjoy
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/technology-used-cheat-casinos-197676/index8.html
Thanks JB. I've actually read that thread once before, but for some reason I couldn't find it right now. For everyone else, if you like a good rigtard thread this is the one you want. The amount of work the OP put into his "theory" and developing his "proof" are pretty remarkable. Puts other rigtards to shame.
1luckysob
Visionary
Silver Level
Go Clowns!!
Mortis
The Saurus
Loyaler
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