CC was mentioned on RealDealPoker

[IcyBlueAce]

LOL - what an explosion of dumb...

The question was a simple one: will they, or will they not, use one of these machines to shuffle a physical deck of cards every time someone wants to play a hand on their site? The impression I get from their marketing is that they will. But they didn't actually answer the question - instead we just get allusions to the mysterious "third way". Maybe midichlorians are involved somehow?

Note that they completely ignored the questions about rake and how their system discourages bots.

And the answers on the cutting issue were just hilarious. The decks of cards these guys are using are sealed inside machines thousands of miles away from all the players. So where, exactly, is the opportunity for anyone to manipulate the physical deck? If there isn't one then I don't see that the player-cut option serves any purpose.

If they were replicating what a real dealer does, their machine would cut the deck before dealing with no input from the players whatsoever. If it did that I'd still think the process was silly (just as I think their use of burn cards is silly and unnecessary) but I could write it off as just being their "thing".

But they're having players request the cut and I didn't find their response the least bit satisfying: either your shuffle (which none of the players at the table have had any influence over) is sound or it isn't. If it's sound, there's no reason for a player to cut. If it's not sound, you've got bigger problems. Or option three, it's a marketing gimmick designed to attract stupid rigtards. So - which is it?

From what I'm understanding they generate a bunch of decks from one deck created by the machine.

 

[t1riel]

The guy is annoying me by repeatably playing with a Rubix cube.

 

[the lab man]

The guy is annoying me by repeatably playing with a Rubix cube.

Yeah whats up with that??? Good for CC

 

[OzExorcist]

@ IcyBlueAce - yeah, I'm gathering that. It's just my understanding from their marketing was that a machine would physically shuffle and deal a deck of cards for every hand and because we're using a physical deck for every hand, which the players get to cut, we're supposed to be able to trust their deal.

But what they're actually going to have three machines and they'll be capable of dealing 48,000 hands per hour:

YouTube- trust_in_gaming_sound.flv

Each machine works on two decks of cards simultaneously but even so, to deal 48,000 hands per hour they'll need to complete the entire process in fractions of a second. Anyone who's watched the videos will note that they plainly don't. So the secret is all in this "Deck Matrix" system - somehow that takes the output of three shuffle machines and using mathematics / software / magic turns it into 48,000 hands per hour.

So they're not dealing you a physical deck of cards for every hand you play and you're certainly not physically cutting that deck. The process is still software controlled, they just use a shuffling machine instead of an RNG as an input.

What's fun is the first part of the video though, where we're told about all the surveys where people don't trust their online gambling providers. There's two ways of interpreting those results, of course:

The first is the one the site owners have taken: that these players genuinely don't trust the existing sites and that they'll be forever converted, giving up their cries of "it's rigged!" as soon as they start playing on a site like Real Deal.

The second, and far more likely one IMO, is this: these players prefer to blame someone else, rather than themselves, when they lose and they'll continue to do so when they continue to lose on a site like Real Deal. They'll just blame the Deck Matrix rather than the RNG.

 

[Zorba]

hehe..if it walks like a duck, smells like a duck..guess what?

It's a rabbit?




Just another gimmick imo.

 

[OzExorcist]

The guy is annoying me by repeatably playing with a Rubix cube.

Pretty sure it's a deck of cards

 

[WVHillbilly]

They'll be fortunate to ever deal 48,000 total hands. My guess is for the number of players they're likely to get the two guys in the 1st video could deal every hand themselves and they'd have no problem keeping up.

Did the guy with the deck remind anyone else of Larry Flint???

 

[Zorba]

lol WVH, I bet your just trying to get in their next you tube clip

 

[t1riel]

Pretty sure it's a deck of cards

Ah, you're right. He seems to be rotating with his ahnds a bit too much. Nervous tick maybe?

 

[OzExorcist]

Ah, you're right. He seems to be rotating with his ahnds a bit too much. Nervous tick maybe?

Maybe. You oughta see the other videos where he tries to shuffle said deck - it's he-lul-rious

 

[OzExorcist]

FWIW, for anyone interested in some more in-depth analysis there's some good material in the link Belgo posted. Especially the last few pages.

 

[Tammy]

Why do I feel like I was just haggling with a car salesman? :s: You would think that he would take this oppurtunity to answer legitimate questions in a professional, businesslike manner to help waylay people's doubts about his system. Instead, he just insults you guys.

 

[RoyalFish]

So if I understand this, he is saying no, there is not a physical deck of cards that is shuffled, cut, and dealt for hand #whatever at your table. Rather, through methods he fails to define, the "deck" you get is somehow generated from a real deck. I don't get why this takes a 2kb file, either. The state of a deck is adequately expressed by a queue of unsigned bytes. The data structure doesn't have to be more than 52 bytes, not 2,048.

I like his response to mine, acknowledging that there's no point to cutting/burning, they're just replicating what would happen in a real game for those who want that. That, honestly, is a dumb idea, but if there are enough people who want it, it may be commercially viable in the same way psychics, sham religions, and *cough* male enhancement products are commercially viable. They're selling you a feeling (or hoping to). It's not that the psychic really knows anything, or the cult's version of god is any more real than Mickey Mouse, or that your %#*$'s really going to get bigger.

It's still just a gimmick. Perhaps one that will appeal to the bad players we call rigtards, but to believe that I want to see independent market research data and methodology showing their sample is representative and projectable to the population of poker players as a whole. Then again, it's not my money they're risking, so I don't really don't care if they succeed as a business or not.

Oh, and as far as patents meaning anything, perpetual motion machines, which are a physical impossibility, have been patented a number of times. Just because it's patented doesn't mean it's a good idea, never been done before, or even works at all.

The only remotely interesting bit is the 100:1 bet backed by an independent auditor, but even that is unnecessary. If I want to know if you're cheating, the only tool I need is statistics. Players controlling the outcome of a game is just silly, superstitious nonsense. Anyone with any poker sense at all knows individual hands are irrelevant, it's the long term that matters. In the long term, your influence by choosing which set of unknown cards come into play averages out into precisely zero. Sometimes the results are better for you than if you hadn't cut, sometimes they're worse. Over thousands if hands, the ONLY result is that you frustrate cheaters if you cut the deck and burn cards. Somewhere on this site I posted a mathematical proof that there are no card removal effects when the removed cards are unknown.

I'm sorry, guys. I appreciate you think this is a good idea, but you're just playing to the fears of the ignorant.

RF

 

[OzExorcist]

Why do I feel like I was just haggling with a car salesman? :s: You would think that he would take this oppurtunity to answer legitimate questions in a professional, businesslike manner to help waylay people's doubts about his system. Instead, he just insults you guys.

LOL

Though when I think about it... from a business standpoint I think the tone they took was about the only sensible thing in the whole video

There's pretty much zero chance of me ever being a customer of theirs. They could tell that from the tone of my questions and given the nature of their system, there really aren't any answers they can give that would be likely to convert me. The same, I believe, goes for most of the other people here following the issue.

What they can do, however, is try to gain support with those who are undecided or new to the issue by pointing to us and saying "See! The haters don't even understand how our system works! Stupid haters - seriously, we're awesome and you should come play real poker with us and our real decks of real cards!"

So from that standpoint I can understand it - I was never going to be a customer anyway, but brushing off my objections might convert others.

 

[kidkvno1]

YouTube- trust_in_gaming_sound.flv

Each machine works on two decks of cards simultaneously but even so, to deal 48,000 hands per hour they'll need to complete the entire process in fractions of a second. Anyone who's watched the videos will note that they plainly don't. So the secret is all in this "Deck Matrix" system - somehow that takes the output of three shuffle machines and using mathematics / software / magic turns it into 48,000 hands per hour.

So they're not dealing you a physical deck of cards for every hand you play and you're certainly not physically cutting that deck. The process is still software controlled, they just use a shuffling machine instead of an RNG as an input.

I don't see it dealing cards out? I don't see how thats going to help if they are still going to use software to deal out the hands, i thought they were going to be dealing out the cards... Maybe this guy should watch some real poker, see the bad beats that are the same in a online game... LOL The first time, that someone gets a Bad beat, you can bet they will say it's rigged..

 

[Weregoat]

lol, can't watch the youtube from work... But this thread is great. An off-beat idea, swindling investors, swindling ignorant possible customers...Don't get me wrong, the idea isn't 'terrible', it's the logistics of the idea. These people have to absolutely believe that online poker, which uses RNGs, is rigged, in order to believe that their business is legitimate, will succeed, and is needed.I don't understand how logistically they can intend to turn a profit short of operating out of www.geocities.com/realdealpoker/index.htmlWG

 

[RoyalFish]

So from that standpoint I can understand it - I was never going to be a customer anyway, but brushing off my objections might convert others.

I don't think so. Addressing our shooting holes in their claims was not at all smart. It's like trying to sell steak to a vegetarian or cigarettes to a health nut. Don't market your product to the people who are not your customers.

I look forward to their next steps in duplicating the casino experience. When they send me a free drink dispenser, I might play. I don't welcome the "You must wear pants" detector, but hey, more like a casino is the goal, apparently.

RF

 

[Stick66]

I don't think so. Addressing our shooting holes in their claims was not at all smart. It's like trying to sell steak to a vegetarian or cigarettes to a health nut. Don't market your product to the people who are not your customers.

I look forward to their next steps in duplicating the casino experience. When they send me a free drink dispenser, I might play. I don't welcome the "You must wear pants" detector, but hey, more like a casino is the goal, apparently.

RF

Well, I do think they were worried by that first thread and, by giving it this attention, they've unknowingly given that thread and Cardschat even more credibility. Other viewers of that video just may come to CC for the first time seeking that thread.

Kudos, dudes.

 

[Numbuh 0ne]

I say busto in under 1 year, right about the time they get sued

 

[JEP712]

This site could become sucessful. They're catering to the "Online Poker Is Rigged" players.

 

[cjatud2012]

This site could become sucessful. They're catering to the "Online Poker Is Rigged" players.

Yes, but as soon as they realize that non-rigged poker is just as rigged as normal poker, they'll stop playing there.

 

[RoyalFish]

Yes, but as soon as they realize that non-rigged poker is just as rigged as normal poker, they'll stop playing there.

"There's a sucker born every minute."

All they need is a continual stream of new people who think online poker is rigged, and that somehow making a pinky promise that your site uses a real deck (but not actually that they're dealing every hand from a real, uniquely shuffled deck) makes it less rigged. If there are always new people coming into online poker, there will always be a subset of those who believe this. Enough to sustain a minor site? I guess we'll see.

RF

 

[WVHillbilly]

The "inventor" of this crap site is nothing but a rigtard himself. From an interview published at RoyalFlushed.net:

"Gene Gioia came up on the idea of creating this method during his career as a JD Edwards consultant who audited the installation of software sytems nation wide. In his spare time Gioia enjoyed playing online poker; but that was very different from playing a live game of poker.

For example Gioia said that when he played in an online poker game, he's three of a kind and also full house got bead more frequently then when playing a live game.

“I even got beat with a straight flush by a higher straight flush — things I’d never seen at a real table,” Gioia said."

 

[Tammy]

The "inventor" of this crap site is nothing but a rigtard himself. From an interview published at RoyalFlushed.net:

"Gene Gioia came up on the idea of creating this method during his career as a JD Edwards consultant who audited the installation of software sytems nation wide. In his spare time Gioia enjoyed playing online poker; but that was very different from playing a live game of poker.

For example Gioia said that when he played in an online poker game, he's three of a kind and also full house got bead more frequently then when playing a live game.

“I even got beat with a straight flush by a higher straight flush — things I’d never seen at a real table,” Gioia said."

Haha! Busted.

 

[Pbland]

The "inventor" of this crap site is nothing but a rigtard himself. From an interview published at RoyalFlushed.net:

"Gene Gioia came up on the idea of creating this method during his career as a JD Edwards consultant who audited the installation of software sytems nation wide. In his spare time Gioia enjoyed playing online poker; but that was very different from playing a live game of poker.

For example Gioia said that when he played in an online poker game, he's three of a kind and also full house got bead more frequently then when playing a live game.

“I even got beat with a straight flush by a higher straight flush — things I’d never seen at a real table,” Gioia said."

Absolutely! You never see that kind of stuff live. This guy needs to go into used car sales.