Bodog Poker blocks scraping sites...saving the fish!

[MediaBLITZ]

I would be very interested to hear if and how they intend to market this. Will it have some effect (though small) on PS and FTP? A friend of mine who used to play quite a bit online was mortified to find out all of his playing was a matter of public record. When I asked him what name he played under and within 5 minutes I emailed his graph for the past 6 months - I think his brain shut down. He was not happy. I'll tell him about this and he'll definitely get on board.

 

[kmixer]

HUDs should be allowed data mining sites should not. If you weren't at the table you should not have access to the HH.

 

[Double-A]

well the problem is that now there is nobody to control poker room and players how you can give proof now for superuser or for some group of players who are playing like team

^^^^^^^this

Can't recall the details... but wasn't one of the cash game tracking sites directly responsible for finding a security flaw in one of the major sites recently (last few months)? I'll eventually look it up...

When anyone starts hiding information, I get nervous...

 

[cjatud2012]

It'll never happen everywhere. A few superstar multi-table grinders aside, the vast majority of multi-tablers won't play without a HUD. MMTers generate a ton of rake. Stars and Tilt fully realize this and have absolutely zero problem with trackers and HUDs. The core problem isn't trackers and HUDs, as they aren't anywhere near cheating. The problem is with datamining and being able to drill into a wealth of players' stats that you've never played a hand against before.

I fully support shutting out the PTRs and SharkScope HUDs (although I think sites that collect results and not HHs are fine) that use datamined hands. But don't stop me from collecting my own HHs.

Even if I weren't using tracking software or a HUD, Bodog's HH review is abysmal. It seriously tilts me that I can't easily review my own sessions and hands. Without a tracker, at least with Stars and Tilts I can very easily review and replay hands. Not so with Bodog, I suppose due to their misguided attempt to stop something that actually isn't a problem.

The only people I ever hear wailing about trackers and HUDs are people who (a) don't know how they're used and what they really do, and (b) *usually* are losing players themselves who like to blame other people, the sites, and/or technology for their losses.

Trackers and HUDs, when fed with legitimately acquired HHs rather than datamined hands, are widely supported in the industry as legitimate software, which I personally believe any serious student of the game realizes.

I guess that's sort of the point of this move though... A losing player is going to be more likely to remain at the site if there if tracking software isn't available, since they can blame that for their losses. Then they'll redeposit, thinking the playing field is even now, donating to the cause

I still like my HUD though!

 

[FatCatBamboo]

It's a tough call. Ha, the pros should buy a yellow pad and make notes the old fashioned way. Or maybe bodog should go in the complete opposite direction and incorporate HUD's and tracking programs on their interface and give recreational players the tools to play like the pros. That way, there is an even playing field. Although I'm not experienced in using HUD's or tracking programs.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Well right now on Bodog it's exactly the opposite of what it should be. HUDs don't work and PTR is tracking every hand. Try harder.

 

[Debi]

It's a tough call. Ha, the pros should buy a yellow pad and make notes the old fashioned way. Or maybe Bodog should go in the complete opposite direction and incorporate HUD's and tracking programs on their interface and give recreational players the tools to play like the pros. That way, there is an even playing field. Although I'm not experienced in using HUD's or tracking programs.

I guess you have never multi-tabled or you would know that is absolutely not possible to do for 99% of people. (I am thinking there might be a few geniuses here and there who could half-ass pull this off so didn't say 100% lol)

 

[WVHillbilly]

I guess you have never multi-tabled or you would know that is absolutely not possible to do for 99% of people. (I am thinking there might be a few geniuses here and there who could half-ass pull this off so didn't say 100% lol)

And I guess you've never played Bodog because they limit you to 4 tables anyway.

 

[dmorris68]

It's a tough call. Ha, the pros should buy a yellow pad and make notes the old fashioned way. Or maybe Bodog should go in the complete opposite direction and incorporate HUD's and tracking programs on their interface and give recreational players the tools to play like the pros. That way, there is an even playing field. Although I'm not experienced in using HUD's or tracking programs.

But trackers are available to everyone. Not just pros. If players have the sense to use something like this built-in to the poker site software (and unique to each one), then why the problem with paying only $55-$90, or even free through an affiliate signup, to get a single software tool that would work the same across all the sites?

I think one of the biggest misconceptions here is that players using tracking software are automatically winning players. Tracking software only helps you get better if you use it properly. It's a tool to improve your game, but it doesn't make you play better by just installing and running it.

 

[Debi]

And I guess you've never played Bodog because they limit you to 4 tables anyway.

Lol - no I don't play there cause they don't allow huds. But - I couldn't even do notes like that on 4 tables - I think I would have to be on 2 at the most.

 

[whatafarse]

Well right now on Bodog it's exactly the opposite of what it should be. HUDs don't work and PTR is tracking every hand. Try harder.

so you are saying as of right now HUDs dont work on bodog ? Can anyone with a HUD confirm this ?

 

[WVHillbilly]

so you are saying as of right now HUDs dont work on bodog ? Can anyone with a HUD confirm this ?

I tried it after reading this thread this morning with PT3 and it did not capture any hands (latest beta release of PT3). PTR however tracked every hand I played.

 

[whatafarse]

but PTR is useless for MTT and sitngos right ?

 

[WVHillbilly]

Right. It tracks cash games only. I have no idea if SS or the other tourney trackers are tracking Bodog at the moment.

 

[dmorris68]

HUDs haven't worked for weeks now, but as WVH said, PTR is still grabbing. Probably using an updated version of Idleminer grabbing code, since they acquired Idleminer last year.

HEM was asked to stop development of their Bodog hand grabber and they complied. Up until then (and since) you could use Idleminer's grabber ($50) to scrape the action and write a proper HH that HEM could use to track hands and drive a HUD. Bodog recently broke all the grabbers, including Idleminers. The Idleminer tools were acquired by PTR and the grabber tools were being retired since PT3 and HEM were going to grab their own hands, but now I hear they may be reviving the grabber tools which will be updated to support Bodog again. If so, PT3/HEM should be able to use them once again to import hands.

Also, sharkscope tracks Bodog results too, but I don't know how accurately. Haven't checked OPR. That said, again I have no real issue with sites that just track game results. That's no different than sites that track player results in other sports/activities. Tournament results, unlike HHs, are public knowledge for anybody to see. As long as they aren't mining the hands themselves and providing those stats in bulk to anybody, I have no beef with them. And like trackers, it's a tool available to everybody.

 

[FatCatBamboo]

I guess you have never multi-tabled or you would know that is absolutely not possible to do for 99% of people. (I am thinking there might be a few geniuses here and there who could half-ass pull this off so didn't say 100% lol)

I don't like multi-tabling. I prefer to focus one game at a time.

But trackers are available to everyone. Not just pros. If players have the sense to use something like this built-in to the poker site software (and unique to each one), then why the problem with paying only $55-$90, or even free through an affiliate signup, to get a single software tool that would work the same across all the sites?

I think one of the biggest misconceptions here is that players using tracking software are automatically winning players. Tracking software only helps you get better if you use it properly. It's a tool to improve your game, but it doesn't make you play better by just installing and running it.

Yes. But think of all the money people lose on these sites where they just play for entertainment value only. They don't want to learn the other guy has an added advantage, they'll grow disinterested. I know the tracking software doesn't provide that huge of a benefit and rec players don't know the tracking software and HUD exist but I still think, as the industry continues to grow, to make this industry a lot more popular and give players more comfort playing, transparency is absolutely crucial. And what Bodog is doing offers that transparency. I know I'm not preaching to the choir because this is a poker forum but I think Bodog is taking the first step towards garnering more people to deposit down the road.

 

[LargePecans]

Bodog Becky,
first off, lemme thank you for your dilgence in the matter of my payout via global epay...the card worked...i just had to wait 48 hrs...and i couldnt send u a private message cause i hadnt posted enough threads yet....
regarding removing the scraping information, i am ambivalent...mostly i use sharkscope for entertainment ....like ill be playing some maniac and i wanna know exactly how terrible they are...100% of the time i know they are a fish before i get the results

 

[LarkMarlow]

...Bodog's HH review is abysmal. It seriously tilts me that I can't easily review my own sessions and hands. Without a tracker, at least with Stars and Tilts I can very easily review and replay hands. Not so with Bodog...

Amen. Becky, are there any plans in the works to improve this system? Seems not only logical but mandatory in light of eliminating efficient external methods.

 

[LargePecans]

also, as far as HUD removal...i am strongly in favor of it...obviously noone would be allowed to have access to that kind of statistical analysis during live tournaments, making Jesus, Negreanu and Ivey all the more dangerous because they can calculate those stats in their heads!
bodog is my favorite site, and ive played most of them....BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE in my opinion...keep up the good work!

 

[dmorris68]

also, as far as HUD removal...i am strongly in favor of it...obviously noone would be allowed to have access to that kind of statistical analysis during live tournaments, making Jesus, Negreanu and Ivey all the more dangerous because they can calculate those stats in their heads!
bodog is my favorite site, and ive played most of them....BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE in my opinion...keep up the good work!

*sigh*

I'm not going to respond in depth to this very illogical statement here, both because it's been addressed way too many times and also because I'm posting from my phone.

You're new here so you do get a break, but please stop trying to compare live play to online play. Two completely different games, strategies, and approaches to playing them. You can't logically apply arguments for what is appropriate in one to the other. You also can't compare the stakes, styles, and volume of live pros to typical online regs and pros.

 

[RamdeeBen]

It does look like pokerstars will be doing something similar like this in the near future.

Not sure exactly in what sense, maybe just tracking sites like PTR but from what pokerstars told me in terms of data mining and using a HUD which I enquired about a week ago they pretty much said "data" wont be available like it currently is. When I emailed back I got a difference response from another team member basically denying it yet the email before from someone else was saying the opposite the basically pokerstars was in the process of upgrading their client to stop it being avilable.

On a personal note, I think either everyone should have a HUD or not have a hud, thats the only reason why I like playing on cake poker because it is illegal to use them so I'm guessing most don't use them, probarly a few who can get one working too but the games seem softer to me..

I only ever started using one on stars because of the fact of how my regs are in the game these days and these regs nearly all having some sort of HUD in place so I wanted to be on level terms.

 

[Double-A]

But think of all the money people lose on these sites where they just play for entertainment value only.

 

[dmorris68]

Stars, Tilt, and everyone else are constantly trying to thwart PTR and datamining sites. That effort will continue I'm certain, as it should. FT has managed to cripple PTRs ability to mine their hands for weeks now, and although PTR has managed to improve they still are way behind on the hands they do get.

I have heard *nothing* to say that PS or FT is trying to stop players from tracking their own hands, which is really what this debate boils down to. Give me readily accessible and well defined HHs for the hands I'm dealt in, and we're cool.

 

[FatCatBamboo]

Meaning, we want them to continue to lose money but wouldn't want to advertise the added tools out there the pros are using to improve their game. It's a weak argument I agree. But I think if you're very good, that's that, you're very good. I just think eliminating these added accessories creates a more transparent playing field in the world of online poker which offers a more trusting source of entertainment for your entertainment seeker. Thus, the sharks can continue to blood suck from the entertainment seeker.

 

[Debi]

also, as far as HUD removal...i am strongly in favor of it...obviously noone would be allowed to have access to that kind of statistical analysis during live tournaments, making Jesus, Negreanu and Ivey all the more dangerous because they can calculate those stats in their heads!

You can't multi-table live tournaments lolololol.