Nope - if you go back and check the stories again, you'll see that Ivey and his companion were asking the dealer to rotate the cards for them. They weren't touching the cards themselves, so it's highly unlikely they would have been suspecting them of marking the cards.
Edge sorting is obviously a new concept to pretty much everyone in this thread, but you can bet your whole bankroll it wasn't a new concept to the supervisors and casino security staff who were overseeing Ivey's game that night.
As I've mentioned before, the casino staff would have recognised almost immediately what he was doing. IMO they were just freerolling him, because while edge sorting done correctly does give the player an advantage, there's still a chance he could have lost a heap of money. If he edge sorts and still loses the casino comes out on top. If he edge sorts and wins, they go to the videos and claim he was cheating so they don't have to pay him.
Yeah, I guess my memory has become a little fuzzy on some of the exact details of the story. After all, this thread is over a year old. I probably should have gone back and reread the original article as you suggest.
I have since done exactly that. You're 100% correct. The article states ""No imperfections, or marks, that would have given Ivey an advantage were found. In any case, Ivey at no time touched the cards," said a source. "The shoe was also thoroughly inspected; once again the investigators drew a blank."" So Phil Ivey wasn't touching the cards.
After reading the original article again, as you suggested it, occurs to me that if the Crockford's investigators were initially unable to determine that he was edge sorting or identify any flaw in the cards, that edge sorting may not be as easily recognizable as we seem to think. Maybe it's just not common enough for all casino personnel to be familiar with. The link below is to some good information on edge sorting. You might be particularly interested in the story about how the casino couldn't figure out how a "card marking team" was beating them out of money and how the casino couldn't figure out how the cards were being marked. After reading it, you might not want to bet your whole bankroll that the casino staff at Crockford's was familiar with the practice of edge sorting.
http://apheat.net/2012/06/28/what-is-edge-sorting/
Of course we know from other articles, some of which I'm pretty sure were linked from this thread and others that I searched out on my own, that at some point it was suspected that Phil Ivey might have been edge sorting. Somehwere in those articles there were in depth explanations of exactly what edge sorting is, how it is carried out, a description of the particular feature in Crockford's card stock that made it possible, as well as the supposition that his female companion may have been the one with the expertise in this area. I started to look up some of those articles to see if any of them detailed precisely when it became suspected that he had been edge sorting. As I said before, it's been quite a while and I've become fuzzy on some of the precise details.
After browsing through three or four pages of posts without seeing any links to any of these articles, I came to the sudden realization that I really didn't give enough of a damn to continue searching. To hell with it. I was half joking about a half assed conspiracy theory to begin with.
The point I was trying to make was that it seems that at some point the casino personnel would have realized that something awry and put a halt to the game and that one of the possible reasons why they didn't was that they suspected that the cards may have been marked. This would explain all of the card manipulation and such. Furthermore it would be easy to prove upon examination of the cards. After all, the initial investigation did focus on the croupier and the cards, suspecting that the cards may have been somehow marked and that there may have been collusion involving the croupier. Perhaps the collusion that they suspected was of the croupier having been the one marking cards.
But you're right. Ivey did not touch the cards. I did get that detail wrong. I apologize. It won't happen again. I have nothing further to add to this thread. I already have the broad strokes of this situation down.
Ivey won.
Casino didn't pay.
They investigated, but initially found nothing.
Later it was suggested that Ivey may have been edge sorting.
We know what that is.
Ivey admitted edge sorting, but contends that it was not cheating.
Now the courts will decide.
I apologize for having some new thoughts on this matter and expressing them without reviewing all articles pertaining to this matter. If I misled anyone, I apologize. It was not my intention.
We here, at my house, sitting at my computer, strive to only provide accurate information to the CC community. In failing to do that, all of us sitting here at my computer have failed you. We apologize to the CC community and to Phil Ivey for any distress we may have caused him and his family.
