Mike Matusow Defeats Phil Helmuth To Win 2013 NBC HU Championship!

dmorris68

dmorris68

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Mike has been my favorite pro for years. I've always liked his genuine personality and his blowups. Where Hellmuth's blowups are funny but tilting and pathetic at the same time, with Mike I find myself laughing but actually feeling sorry for him. His don't bother me nearly as much as PH's do.

Also +1 on his book, it made me like him even more.

And for those who doubt Mike's poker chops -- he frequently admits/laments the fact that he can't hold up to the new online generation, but the same can be said of most of the old-school players. A decade or so ago, Mike was considered by many to be one of the best limit players in the world, and probably still is. It's just that in the post-Moneymaker world FLHE isn't nearly the dominate poker game that it was back then, so the spotlight has shrunk considerably.
 
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ScottishMatt

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I've always liked Mike's disposition. Although he annoys other players with his insults and stuff, most of the time it's in jest. Unlike PH, who is considerably more delusional concerning his talents and others weaknesses. Plus Mike seems like a really decent guy, I could see myself being able to chill with him.
 
JusSumguy

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Unlike PH, who is considerably more delusional concerning his talents
While I enloy Mikee more than Phil... there is no delusion as to Phil's talents.

14. Count-em 14

-
 
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ScottishMatt

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I'm not denying his talent. In fact my post didn't make any statement concerning how good he actually is. My post only highlighted the fact that Phil Hellmuth is no where near as good as he thinks he is.
 
SicKBeATz

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I'm not denying his talent. In fact my post didn't make any statement concerning how good he actually is. My post only highlighted the fact that Phil Hellmuth is no where near as good as he thinks he is.

Why do you think he's not as good as he thinks he is? He has multiple bracelets, most out of anyone, and 2 of which were main events.

He has the most cashes out of any tournament player in the wsop. Was runner up to player of the yr this past year. He is the most consistent winner in tournament poker.

Probably many more accomplishments I'm not aware of but there's no denying the fact the guy has proven to be the greatest nl tournament player and yes he's got a huge ego, can you blame him?
 
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DunningKruger

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I'm not too sure how good Hellmuth honestly thinks he is but I do know he's much better than a lot of lesser poker players think he is.
 
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ScottishMatt

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Just skip to the last section if you don't feel like reading a whole lot.

@Sickbeatz Well, Phil Hellmuth thinks he is the greatest player in the world. I beg to differ. I have no thoughts on how good he is other than in the contexts that I've seen him play. I don't think that tournament success and cash game failure equates to the greatest player of all time. Greatest tournament player? Yes, I'll agree to that. Not however greatest player in the world. If you feel I'm making an incorrect assumption on his perception of himself, well, then you're wrong. The way he insults other players and their plays. To think that his way is the only way and if someone else plays differently they must be a bad player, he feels his way is superior and that any action he wouldn't take is a bad play. He also claims to get unlucky against amateurs, when really he played badly. Now I'm sure Phil Hellmuth is a great player, even in cash games, and I'm not saying he doesn't have a lifetime profit there. But if I were to put him in the context where he claims to belong I don't think he would stand a chance, I've seen him in this context multiple times (HSP, PAD) and not once have I seen him play anywhere near the level he thinks he plays at.

As for tournament cashes etc. I agree with you on him being the most successful tournament player.

Are you saying he has a right to his ego? That him berating other players because they didn't do what he would do, or wanted them to do, is therefore justified? If you feel that because he has a higher level of success he should be able to get away with horrible etiquette, and is justified in the beratement of other players then you need to reassess your thought process. All these detrimental actions are a direct product of his ego. So I'll blame him for being a **** and lacking in humility. I'm not against having an ego, if someone thinks they are good, then fine. I have no problem with that. The problem is when it is so big that you become a hypocrite, and feel you should get away with things other people cannot.


@Dunning I have no doubt he is great. Compare him to myself and he is practically a God. I have no idea how good his game is in the context that I play and I never will. So I have no way to say that he is bad or good. I just don't think that he is the best player in the world, which is what he thinks. Again, one dimensional success isn't evidence of the best player in the world.


If he were to sit down at a table, whether six max or full ring (or HU), cash or tournament, with players like Daniel Negreanu, Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, Sam Trickett, Antonio Esfandiari, Phil Galfond, Tom Dwan and Viktor Blom. Then I think he would be a losing player. I think like placing him among these players would be accurate according to his perception of himself as a poker player. In reality, I wouldn't place him among these guys.
 
dmorris68

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PH has 13 bracelets, not 14. #13 was his WSOPE NLHE bracelet last July. Of course some would argue that's like saying the sun's temp is 30M degrees F instead of the correct 27M degrees F, but let's not inflate his ego any more than we have to. :)

I have respect for PH's accomplishments but there are a number of reasons to explain his success without believing he's nearly as good as he thinks he is:
  • PH has always been a large field NLHE tournament specialist. He does well in large field tournaments with a very high ratio of recreational players to good players, which describes nearly all WSOP events and the vast majority of his wins.
  • He plays in a very large number of tournaments, more than most (all?) other pros, so the huge variance of MTT's is compressed over a given period (year, career, whatever). Put Ivey or Dwan or Negreanu or Seidel in as many tourneys as PH plays and you'll likely see a greater number of wins.
  • He has numerous lengthy dry spells between bracelets. Remember that his 1st was in 1989, and as noted above he's played literally many hundreds of WSOP events since then (probably thousands counting the non-WSOP events) with few results. He has no WPT titles. He has 4 and 5 year dry spells without even cashing. Some of the people gaining on him and Doyle and Johnny in bracelets have only been playing for the last decade or so and play far far fewer tournaments than he does, so would actually have a higher winning percentage than him.
  • Yes he has 49 final tables and 95 cashes, but compared again to the hundreds of events he plays and his noted edge in those particular fields, I don't think that's as impressive as it first sounds.
  • He has a well documented reputation of being the fish at the table in cash games, and up until last year, mixed games as well. Specializing in one narrow field of poker (NLHE tournaments) does not make you the overall "greatest poker player in the world" which is what he thinks of himself. If anything it makes you the best NLHE tournament player, and then only in the context of the previous points.

Now all that said, his showing in the last couple years has demonstrated that he's really buckled down on his mixed game skills, so he deserves kudos for finally realizing his NLHE edge isn't as great as it used to be. Again I give the guy props for what he's done, and love or hate him he's done a lot for the game of poker. But considering him the overall greatest player that he thinks of himself is just plain wrong IMO.
 
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^^ A much more concise and reasoned post than the mess I made. Glad to see someone agree with me on this point.

Getting back onto topic, I need some new reading material so how is Mike's book?
 
twiztidwolff

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Never been a fan of Phil, but that will never take away anything from his accomplishments.
 
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DunningKruger

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I just don't think that he is the best player in the world, which is what he thinks.

If he think's he is the world's greatest player, he'd be wrong. I'm just not sure if deep down he honestly thinks that he's the world's greatest player.

If he were to sit down at a table, whether six max or full ring (or HU), cash or tournament, with players like Daniel Negreanu, Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, Sam Trickett, Antonio Esfandiari, Phil Galfond, Tom Dwan and Viktor Blom. Then I think he would be a losing player. I think like placing him among these players would be accurate according to his perception of himself as a poker player. In reality, I wouldn't place him among these guys.

I suppose it has a lot to do with how you define great and what precisely we're discussing here, but yeah except maybe Doyle I wouldn't like Hellmuth's chances against pretty much anyone on that list.
 
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Not sure if this was posted here yet, but does anyone know when this episode will air on NBC?I have a hard time finding out when they will air this. TY all for the info.I think its later in April sometime?
 
Suited Frenzy

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Not sure if this was posted here yet, but does anyone know when this episode will air on NBC?I have a hard time finding out when they will air this. TY all for the info.I think its later in April sometime?

In 4 or 5 more weeks I believe. I haven't looked it up but I'm assuming that since it's based on bracket play. Being that they're airing 2 episodes a week, it should be end of April or in early May.

I just DVR it so I don't pay attention too much.

By the time I got done typing this, I could've just went & looked it up lol. But it's late, I'm tired & going to bed.
 
masondub

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So I have been waiting for it to come on TV. But they keep teasing me with the same match ups everytime.. And im not even sure if it is 2013. Where can I watch this at? I cant even find it on Youtube.
 
Suited Frenzy

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After watching the final HU matches I've come to realize that Mike Matusow & I need to hang out...the end
 
trekmaster

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a tiger cant change his stripes and mike cant change his demenor. hes a douch has and always will be.
 
Suited Frenzy

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a tiger cant change his stripes and mike cant change his demenor. hes a douch has and always will be.

Everyone has their own opinion

Here's mine...

He's awesome!
 
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Nice pot, but buyin is really huge, 25,000 :O
Im sure that hurt a little, when Phil Hellmuth lost last hand, there still $450,000 between $750,000 and $300,000.
But $300,000 is very good win too, thats 12 times buyin, 300000/25000=12.
 
jazzaxe

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I have disliked Matusow since I saw him berate and insult Greg Raymer, then offered to shake Raymer's hand which Raymer refused. I won't disregard his talent, but I find it difficult to support him.
 
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I was glad to see MIke win something again. I h ave always liked him, and i think he has toned down his antics at the table now also.:)
 
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Never really liked Hellmuth but apart from Neo who else can dodge bullets
:)
 

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