F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
I think, it require a fairly special mentality to register to a ladies event as a guy. And while I guess, its kind of funny, he actually won this one, its not really good for poker, that he did it. But with that being said I think, legislation is also to blame here. If a casino wants to run a poker tournament for only people above 65 years of age, is that then also not allowed? And why? Senior competitions are completely normal in sport, as is of course same sex competitions. So for me this is taking the fight against discrimination to far.
Shells
Moderator
Moderator
If you are looking for further details on this story re: David Hughes having entered a WPT Ladies Event at Seminole Hard Rock, CardsChat contributor, Daniel Smyth gives us the story linked below.
David Hughes Wins WPT Seminole Ladies Event, Twitter Reacts
Chica_bonita
Sad Funny Lady🌬
Bronze Level
Wow, thanks, Shelley, for sharing the details of this story. 🙊🙉🙈
I take back my words.😤
It seems like this is a really low act on the part of this player and his behavior confirms it. The reward for his head, of course, is a great bonus, but it's not worth it if the participant allowed himself to behave rudely.... if he at least behaved decently and had fun with the ladies, then it could be a really interesting game with the cherry on the cake in the form of the only man in the tournament... but alas.
I am glad that the ladies reacted adequately to this situation.🌺🌺🌺
Emily Trott
Legend
Loyaler
Thank you Shells! I think that Mr. Hughes is a born smartalec, as my mother called it, and we would have probably been friends in high school.
I say that while giving the benefit of the doubt as to his reason for entering this tournament. This quote from the article seems to support my interpretation:I'd love to read an interview with him about this incident, and get his perspective on the why he did this.
mattiebumpo
Legend
Loyaler
Thank you, @Shells! Great article by Daniel Smith. I am glad to hear that the ladies in the event took it in stride and didn't let it spoil it for them.
mattiebumpo
Legend
Loyaler
I agree that women should enjoy equal rights to men, but sadly that is not always the case. Although women have a right to play in open poker events, there are still some men who make it a point to harass and bully women at the poker table to make sure they do not feel welcome. The purpose of ladies-only events is to provide a safer environment for women to play poker. That being said, people are people, and sometimes even at the ladies-only events there can be unpleasant situations...just part of life, I guess. I just think if men could give that little bit of space for ladies-only events, then more women will venture into the open events.
Dobbler1
Rock Star
Bronze Level
Where do you get the idea that they legally can't bar men? Are you suggesting that the WNBA is and illegal organization?
Dobbler1
Rock Star
Bronze Level
I have mixed feelings about women's leagues/tournaments in both poker and chess. I think I see two sides to it, so here they are as I see them.
On the one hand, unlike sports with big physical components, there's nothing about poker that suggests that men and women shouldn't be on the same level, so there's no fairness question. When there is separation, I think it can reinforce negative stereotypes. I was looking at chess forums recently, and there are a lot of people that believe that men are inherently cognitively superior to women in ways that make them better at chess. I think there are probably plenty of people who feel similarly about poker, and I think if women's leagues and women's tourney's is leading to that, that's a crying shame.
On the other hand, in both things (chess and poker), there are way more men than women involved and interested. I think poker has made some great steps in this area, but if these tournaments bring more women to the game, then that should be a good thing, right?
Seeing both sides, I really don't know which one is a stronger argument.
On the one hand, unlike sports with big physical components, there's nothing about poker that suggests that men and women shouldn't be on the same level, so there's no fairness question. When there is separation, I think it can reinforce negative stereotypes. I was looking at chess forums recently, and there are a lot of people that believe that men are inherently cognitively superior to women in ways that make them better at chess. I think there are probably plenty of people who feel similarly about poker, and I think if women's leagues and women's tourney's is leading to that, that's a crying shame.
On the other hand, in both things (chess and poker), there are way more men than women involved and interested. I think poker has made some great steps in this area, but if these tournaments bring more women to the game, then that should be a good thing, right?
Seeing both sides, I really don't know which one is a stronger argument.
Emily Trott
Legend
Loyaler
I think that that games hosted in a licensed casino would fall under the prohibition of discrimination due to the venue being a "public accommodation". That places it under federal, and probably state, laws that prohibit discrimination based upon sex, race, religion, etc...
As for a privately owned sports league, I really don't know.
jaymfc
R.I.P DJ & Buck
Loyaler
I don't understand why prohibiting men in a ladies' tourney is discrimination but I
think they prohibit men in ladies' restrooms and changing rooms.
just a lack of respect.
even if he donates 100% to charity he is still a piece of crap with no respect.
the point is to give more women a chance to play with perceived less pressure in an attempt to get more women in the game and keep poker alive. he is giving poker and men a bad rep.
in reality, most of those women were better poker players than the donkey, he just got lucky.
in my opinion, equal rights does not mean women should be treated like men,
only that they should have equal rights, equal pay, etc.
think they prohibit men in ladies' restrooms and changing rooms.
just a lack of respect.
you answered all the questions yourself so are you still on the fence or do you understand why they are douchbags?
there's no other hand, even if a man has a large bounty on his head, even if he paid 90% more for his ticket,
even if he donates 100% to charity he is still a piece of crap with no respect.
the point is to give more women a chance to play with perceived less pressure in an attempt to get more women in the game and keep poker alive. he is giving poker and men a bad rep.
in reality, most of those women were better poker players than the donkey, he just got lucky.
in my opinion, equal rights does not mean women should be treated like men,
only that they should have equal rights, equal pay, etc.
mattiebumpo
Legend
Loyaler
I am not a lawyer...I do not think they (card rooms) are willing to risk a lawsuit so if a man insists on playing, the venue will likely not prevent it.
mattiebumpo
Legend
Loyaler
Exactly!!!
Emily Trott
Legend
Loyaler
You are a true sportsman.
Dobbler1
Rock Star
Bronze Level
I'm no lawyer, but I suspect tournaments can be seen as private events. It's not like they're saying to the guy "you're male so you can't play any poker here at all." They're just saying that you can't play in this specific tournament. The fact that there have been lots of women's tournaments in the past makes me think that there is no serious legal concern. casinos, ironically, are pretty risk averse businesses. They pretty much only deal in sure things.
Emily Trott
Legend
Loyaler
That's basically "separate but equal" and that doesn't work anymore since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did away with this:
It would only come into play if some man was not allowed to enter the tournament and decided to start a lawsuit. I can't think of any other logical reason why this man was allowed to play in the tournament.
Poker_Mike
Legend
Loyaler
Like some other members - I too am ambivalent about a man entering a women's tournament.
And I also agree with some members that he is probably a huge douche-canoe personality-wise.
But - and I am serious about this - can you think of a way to put a bigger target on your back? You can have a thousand dollar bounty on your head - but when everybody absolutely hates seat 8???? lol
Similar situation for a woman at a cash table full of sexist men. And I have seen women take advantage of this astutely.
Full confession - I tried to play a satellite for a ticket to the women's tournie in my live poker room.
I really wanted to play a tournie that day - i had the time, ambition, etc. And I had forgotten that it was the satellite to the women's tournie.
But, the room denied my entry. I pointed out that the Women's tournie was women only - but the satellite didn't say anything about it.
If I won the seat to the big tournie then I intended to back one of the female players. I know who the excellent ones are.
But it never got to that point.....
And I also agree with some members that he is probably a huge douche-canoe personality-wise.
But - and I am serious about this - can you think of a way to put a bigger target on your back? You can have a thousand dollar bounty on your head - but when everybody absolutely hates seat 8???? lol
Similar situation for a woman at a cash table full of sexist men. And I have seen women take advantage of this astutely.
Full confession - I tried to play a satellite for a ticket to the women's tournie in my live poker room.
I really wanted to play a tournie that day - i had the time, ambition, etc. And I had forgotten that it was the satellite to the women's tournie.
But, the room denied my entry. I pointed out that the Women's tournie was women only - but the satellite didn't say anything about it.
If I won the seat to the big tournie then I intended to back one of the female players. I know who the excellent ones are.
But it never got to that point.....
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Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
They wouldn't permit it if they weren't forced to - it is definitely not the casino organizer's fault.