Computer "unbeatable" at HU Limit Hold'em

[ATOMs01]

That's interesting.
And maybe for no-limit hold'em such a program?

 

[lcid86]

would this prove poker is a game of skill?

 

[army-ninja]

It would be cool if you go there to learn, like put in your hand and position and see what you should do...

So do you think that there are currently bots that cannot be detected playing on poker sites, making it hard for real players to win at limit tables?

I found a couple more bots that claim to do this with other variants of poker as well, but major news outlets seem to only find this one the most credible

 

[bnasp2]

Anyway I would say that limit holdem was quite solved already before this.
Maybe not totally exploit-proof, but good enough it was impossible to beat such bot+rake online.

Of course profitability of such bot was mostly dependent on size of rake vs. number of players making big mistakes. And all weak players moved to no-limit already.

 

[PuckerUpChat]

What fun is it to play a computer?????

 

[dj11]

would this prove poker is a game of skill?

+1

 

[army-ninja]

I would say if someone or some computer wins over 50% of the time always, then it would have to be related to some sort of skill. Luck would prove 50% over time. To account for deviations, let's just say 75% of the time winnning.. that shows tremendous skill required.

 

[carsguitars777]

New poker playing software has mastered fixed limit hold em

I just read an article online about a piece of software called "Cepheus" developed by the university of Alberta that plays a near perfect game of heads up limit hold em, I don't know if I can post links here so I wont, but if you google "Cepheus poker" you should get some info... any thoughts on this? they state it is only perfect at limit heads up hold em, but what they future could hold idk.. no limit is a game of way more possibilities, especially multi-handed, but in the future do you think human poker players could become obsolete?

We saw what computer programs like deep blue and such did to chess players, what are all of your thoughts?

 

[veronica]

Say it is only when someone makes a mistake is when you end up losing, serious question of seeing to learn what works in this system.

 

[joe777]

They can create anything,but nothing can predict the outcome.Nothing can mess up with the rng and it so much different to chess where you can predict everything.Poker is not all skill,luck sometimes can play close to 95% role where as even a beginner can win a tournament having dealt a streaks of best card pre and on the flop.

 

[JaxA]

Interesting. I doubt anything more complicated like nl, or more players will be "solved" like this, at least not anytime soon.

 

[joe777]

The only way to master or solve NL is if you can predict the outcome of the cards,it has been proven impossible as the RNG nowadays are so random and advance,its impossible.

 

[carsguitars777]

I posted about this before I saw yours, sorry about that, but It is very scary to me, I think eventually they will get this software so good that no human could play against them profitably, but for most games of poker I think its far off and could be over 50 years before they are perfected.. as long as I can be profitable for the rest of my time on earth playing poker I am happy, but it is very interesting, think about a time when computers, something a human built can out think humans themselves. It is funny though the site has been down and no one can play it.

Limit Holdem not NL Holdem, probably not even Pot limit holdem




Soo what happens when it plays against its self?

That's how the machine apparently learns, It plays itself millions of hands a second and figures out the best strategy to win. No human could ever play the number of hands this machine can play. Basically it teaches itself.

 

[vinest]

sooner or later, this program will be working perfectly. and somebody starts to earn on players. if this happens - I'm not going to play poker online,

 

[A2345Razz]

They can create anything,but nothing can predict the outcome.Nothing can mess up with the rng and it so much different to chess where you can predict everything.Poker is not all skill,luck sometimes can play close to 95% role where as even a beginner can win a tournament having dealt a streaks of best card pre and on the flop.

Doesn't depend on knowing which cards are coming IN THE LONG RUN.

There definitely can be GTO play in NLH where someone/thing would be unbeatable IN THE LONG RUN.

The only way to master or solve NL is if you can predict the outcome of the cards,it has been proven impossible as the RNG nowadays are so random and advance,its impossible.

Not true. No one is saying these bots will win every hand, but they'll win against any opponent over a large number of hands.

Interesting. I doubt anything more complicated like nl, or more players will be "solved" like this, at least not anytime soon.

Not sure, largely depends on if a very motivated person with great resources behind him or a group he or she heads emerges to solve the problem of NLH or multiway LHE.

sooner or later, this program will be working perfectly. and somebody starts to earn on players. if this happens - I'm not going to play poker online,

Unless you play HU LIMIT HOLDEM, this means nothing as far as your opponents online. Play on...

 

[dj11]

As has already been said, this is only solving LIMIT HU Holdem.

A few years ago (2007) there was a challenge between pros and bots; http://www.poker-academy.com/man-machine/

 

[DonSifu]

i could see how in the long run a computer can beat a limit game, but not in a no limit game, because there are too many variances in NL that a computer cannot account for.
interesting read nonetheless.

 

[army-ninja]

Apparently cheating can increase your odds...

https://www.cardschat.com/news/darren-woods-first-uk-online-poker-prison-and-fine-9426

But then you may go to jail!!

Look at his screen name.. Accurate

 

[JamesMoroski]

COMPUTER BEATABLE AT HU LIMIT

I dont think its anything to get up in arms about LIMIT poker is DEAD and who the hell is going to play a computer HU for real money anyway STUPID!!

 

[SBritt]

Why does it work for Limit but not No Limit?

 

[BullWink]

I think the future is not far off, and is probably here already. To play good poker, you need to analyze decision, remember how your opponent has played in the past, calculate the best odds, use probabilities and statistics. All of these things are what a computer is good at, and I think it won't be long until they are able to beat even the pros at full ring game NL (if they get input lots of past information about how their opponent played their previous hands).
I think against most casual players, the bots that have been developed already are able to win in a majority of sessions.

 

[solargarlic]

If this wasn't only for Heads Up I would be scared that it might fall into the wrong hands. Very interesting story but at the same time I feel that things like this although impressive are not a good thing in general. Games are fun and fair with humans adding this element seems to take some of the spirit out of the game. I will file this in cool but why did they do it except for to screw people over at some point. I hope I am wrong about this.

 

[Lheticus]

If this wasn't only for Heads Up I would be scared that it might fall into the wrong hands. Very interesting story but at the same time I feel that things like this although impressive are not a good thing in general. Games are fun and fair with humans adding this element seems to take some of the spirit out of the game. I will file this in cool but why did they do it except for to screw people over at some point. I hope I am wrong about this.

It does seem slightly like mad science, doesn't it?

 

[veltins]

i have been waiting to get a game with cmp for Long time ... too big que...if anyone playing it , let us know how u went.. i will try again tommorow to get a game with it...

 

[JamesMoroski]

Compters will NEVER be able to play NL

There are too many variables in NL holdem not to mention the computer will NOT be able to recognize a bluff and will LOSE big pots against a real player. Limit holdem YES they will be able to win at Limit Holdem.