'Black Friday' and associated fallout megathread

[ruhrohdingdong]

Recent news up the chances for US players to play I'm hoping? Or not really

It got way worse. Basically the DoJ gave them their domain back and agreed to facilitate paying back Americans in return for being able to investigate them independently to make sure they are not allowing Americans to play or deposit on their site so now FTP/Stars have more incentive to actually enforce the ban on US players.

 

[tusabes]

So...FTP and PS are saying we will get our $ back.

What do you guys think about purchasing tourny tickets w/ my ftpp and asking them to convert to cash?

 

[ruhrohdingdong]

dj there never was or is a ban against US players playing online poker and the DoJ isn't even claiming that. The DoJ claims there is a law (which some disagree is the case) that prohibits Stars/FTP from accepting the wagers and a law against banks knowingly processing those transactions. Since the players did not commit any crimes they are allowing the site to send the innocent people their money back while still charging the sites for their crimes (and the fraud is still most likely a real crime regardless of whether poke is legal or illegal to offer).

 

[coolnout]

So...FTP and PS are saying we will get our $ back.

What do you guys think about purchasing tourny tickets w/ my ftpp and asking them to convert to cash?

Stars yes, FTP not just yet.

 

[tusabes]

Now we just need to have the release that u.s. players can resume playing.

 

[juice561]

umm well i have been the number on the check like u suggested DJIMMY but no luck. i'm gonna go ahead n deposit it in the bank and hopefully it clears. i was going to post the name of the processor but i dnt think thats a good idea i do have the number i dnt think that would be a problem anyways ill keep u guys updated ok 2 of them have been cleared 2,000.10 each so now all i have left is one for 1,000.10 and i'm done with full tilt and their processors.

 

[coolnout]

Now we just need to have the release that u.s. players can resume playing.

won't be happening anytime soon

In DoJ press release: "(...) Under the terms of the agreements with PokerStars and
Full Tilt Poker, the companies agreed that they would not allow
for, facilitate, or provide the ability for players located in
the United States to engage in playing online poker(...)"

 

[tusabes]

Stars yes, FTP not just yet.

They have told us that they would convert unused tourny tix to cash though?

What about selling them?

 

[cardriverx]

Can you guys withdraw on FullTilt? I still can't.

 

[the Styb]

From Full Tilt: “full tilt poker has no accounting of the millions of dollars of player funds that were seized by the government.”

From the US Attorney’s Office: "No individual player accounts were ever frozen or restrained, and each implicated poker company has at all times been free to reimburse any player's deposited funds.”

These two statements are what is known as spin.

First, FT has "no accounting" of US player funds simply because they don't break down the money by nationality. Give them a week and I'm certain an accountant could put a dollar value on it. The main point of this statement is to put forth the notion that the US government has seized players funds, which it indeed has.

The AG's statement that "No individual player accounts were ever frozen or restrained" is also true. However, all US players funds were not sitting in the cashier's window at FT, but rather in one of the 76 accounts which the Fed did indeed seize. Their claim that the Big Three were free to reimburse players at any time was also true, assuming that the B3 had other assets in an un-seized bank account to use.

Essentially they're playing each other for the media.

While these developments are great news for players fretting their money, it's a death knell for those of us who still want to play. Sure, I could go to a B&M in New Orleans and play all the poker I care to, but it's inconvenient for me to do so. I'm a photographer and I like to play poker while I'm editing shots and composing my magazine. (http://www.magcloud.com/browse/Issue/157769 if anyone cares to gawk.) I seriously doubt that Harrah's will give me internet access and allow me to bring my laptop to the table…


The UIGEA Board by M Styborski, on Flickr

 

[ruhrohdingdong]

From Full Tilt: “Full Tilt Poker has no accounting of the millions of dollars of player funds that were seized by the government.”

From the US Attorney’s Office: "No individual player accounts were ever frozen or restrained, and each implicated poker company has at all times been free to reimburse any player's deposited funds.”

These two statements are what is known as spin.

First, FT has "no accounting" of US player funds simply because they don't break down the money by nationality. Give them a week and I'm certain an accountant could put a dollar value on it. The main point of this statement is to put forth the notion that the US government has seized players funds, which it indeed has.

The AG's statement that "No individual player accounts were ever frozen or restrained" is also true. However, all US players funds were not sitting in the cashier's window at FT, but rather in one of the 76 accounts which the Fed did indeed seize. Their claim that the Big Three were free to reimburse players at any time was also true, assuming that the B3 had other assets in an un-seized bank account to use.

eh, FTP per regulations in their home country (forget if they're Isle of man too or that's just Stars) is supposed to keep player balances in separate accounts. If they did that both statements cannot possibly be true. Our money is supposed to be in separate accounts and DoJ claims those accounts weren't touched. Either the DoJ is lying and those accounts were touched or FTP is going to be in some bigger trouble in their home country for not complying with regulations on player balances.

 

[tusabes]

Where can I get a uigea board?

 

[Charade You Are]

Dont do it!!! You will lose your bonuses

I almost hit cancel but wtf good are bonuses if you can't play. And it's pretty obvious we will never be playing at Stars or FTP again.

 

[coolnout]

Can you guys withdraw on FullTilt? I still can't.

But, unfortunately, there remain significant practical and legal impediments to returning funds to players in the immediate future. As a result of the recent enforcement action, there exists no authorized U.S. payment channel through which to make refunds; Full Tilt Poker has no accounting of the millions of dollars of player funds that were seized by the government; and the government has not agreed to permit any of the seized player funds to be returned to the players.

 

[tusabes]

Is ftp going to offer less than 100 cents on the dollar? This is sounding poor for ftp players and slightly better for ps players.

 

[pokerman27]

pokerstars has just announced the first of its reload bonuses - expect a lot more from other sites soon....

 

[tusabes]

Are you guys listening to quadjacks.com? how do you participate in their active live chat?

 

[cardriverx]

But, unfortunately, there remain significant practical and legal impediments to returning funds to players in the immediate future. As a result of the recent enforcement action, there exists no authorized U.S. payment channel through which to make refunds; Full Tilt Poker has no accounting of the millions of dollars of player funds that were seized by the government; and the government has not agreed to permit any of the seized player funds to be returned to the players.

Then why can we cashout on pokerstars?...

I hope we're able to cashout on FullTilt soon.

 

[Charade You Are]

If we assume the simple, that this is a power play purely by the DOJ, then the DOJ is seemingly walking on eggshells. This recent development (sites able to return funds) is meant to soften the poker public outrage over the whole event scene. The legal ground the DOJ is treading on is undefined, and only a few untested laws (UEGIA, Wire Act) , are involved. Perhaps someone somewhere wants/needs clarity.

When the piece of crap UIGEA was passed in 2006 and then neteller had their accounts seized, we eventually got our money back. The DOJ doesn't want to punish the players, they want to shut us up. Their only goal is to clear the way for U.S. based casinos to get all the pie and grab some money for the govt. If they have an agreement, then I'm sure the DOJ has figured out a way to "workaround" the UIGEA. LMFAO.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Then why can we cashout on pokerstars?...

I hope we're able to cashout on FullTilt soon.

You'll be able to soon. No way, FTP makes a deal with the US gov't only to say "Oh yeah we're not actually going to pay out".

 

[the Styb]

eh, FTP per regulations in their home country (forget if they're Isle of man too or that's just Stars) is supposed to keep player balances in separate accounts. If they did that both statements cannot possibly be true. Our money is supposed to be in separate accounts and DoJ claims those accounts weren't touched. Either the DoJ is lying and those accounts were touched or FTP is going to be in some bigger trouble in their home country for not complying with regulations on player balances.

Ah… was not aware. On the other hand, it doesn't actually say that the separate accounts would have our names on them. (Or does it? I dunno.) Regardless, PS will not release my .93¢ as it it below their cashout limit, LOL!! Wonder if I can take them to court for damages for failure to remit according to a legal agreement between them and the US Atty's office…?

Where can I get a uigea board?

Follow the link to Flickr, view all sizes, (you might have to sign up to do that, but it's free,) choose large or original, download and enjoy!


The UIGEA Board by M Styborski, on Flickr

 

[Poof]

This kind of makes me sad, it is like they are making it official they are done with us for good. I feel like I am reliving last Friday all over

 

[coolnout]

This kind of makes me sad, it is like they are making it official they are done with us for good. I feel like I am reliving last Friday all over

ya it sucks.

 

[WVHillbilly]

This kind of makes me sad, it is like they are making it official they are done with us for good. I feel like I am reliving last Friday all over

I accepted that it was over last Friday night when I was spending all my FT points. I'm pretty damned happy that I'll be getting my $$s now.

 

[cardriverx]

I was getting specialized in those Rush turbo tourneys lol. Have to learn another game again.

Time to start building my new roll today in the Carbon freeroll.