Why is online poker declining

B

bigpappa325

Visionary
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
Total posts
995
Starting to see news on closures of offices for poker stars and articles that online poker is declining. Most sites have declined in free rolls. All but ACR, THEY SEEM TO BE STEPPING IT UP and pokerstars. Not really sure of party poker. How are you going to entice without freebees?

To suggest the decline is only happening online is false. Live play is dropping too. But at a much slower rate. Online is taking a hit and would love to hear why you think it might be?:thumpdown
 
B

bigpappa325

Visionary
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
Total posts
995
They drop freerolls because they are not profitable for them. The players they bring in rarely ever become paying customers.

As with any business you will have cost. Sites are changing rake back and other incentives and raising rake to increase profit yes? Free rolls have a very high rake return so really they are generating revenue. Smartest thing they did was create rebuy on free rolls.

Have you ever seen a site stop free rolls that didn't continue to decline in participants?

A lot of people don't deposit because they don't have an account skrill or bit coin etc. Government knew by stopping the normal financial institutions they would have more control. If our government could tax those sites i bet none of the problems would of arrived. Its always about the money yes?

So why do you think online is declining?
 
Debi

Debi

Forum Admin
Administrator
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Total posts
70,632
Awards
20
As with any business you will have cost. Sites are changing rake back and other incentives and raising rake to increase profit yes? Free rolls have a very high rake return so really they are generating revenue. Smartest thing they did was create rebuy on free rolls.

Have you ever seen a site stop free rolls that didn't continue to decline in participants?

A lot of people don't deposit because they don't have an account skrill or bit coin etc. Government knew by stopping the normal financial institutions they would have more control. If our government could tax those sites i bet none of the problems would of arrived. Its always about the money yes?

So why do you think online is declining?

Freerolls generate no rake - they are free. :)

Tough regulations are responsible for the decline in online poker. poker sites lose money every time they lose a market.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,276
Awards
1
As Debi say, a lot of it has to do with regulations and also segregation of player pools. Online poker (and live poker) is actually booming in Asia, but most of the activity is on other than the traditional western facing sites like PokerStars, partypoker or 888 Poker.

Measured on cash game traffic PokerStars is not even the largest site any more. They have been overtaken by the Asian facing IDN Poker network. Or rather pokerstars.com have been overtaken. Because a part of the issue is also, that sites are being forced by governments to segregate player pools. So besides Pokerstars.com, we also have Pokerstars.eu, Pokerstars.it, Pokerstars.in and what not.
 
B

bigpappa325

Visionary
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
Total posts
995
Freerolls generate no rake - they are free. :)

Tough regulations are responsible for the decline in online poker. Poker sites lose money every time they lose a market.

O i thought i read that money won from free rolls had to play enough to generate 50% of the winning on rake on other play. So most players in free rolls who win get eaten up by regs who usually play multiple tables creating even more rake. Keeping tables full is the key. Maybe i was mis informed.

I found this on the forum

Intertops requires that you rake 50% of all Freeroll winnings before you can withdraw


Free rolls may give some chips to play knowing the average player isnt winning enough to pay the rake. If he is good enough he going to produce much more rake. Either way it doesnt look like the site is loosing money just swapping it back and fort to keep players on the tables.

Dont take it wrong i appreciate the free rolls. My occasional deposits are not going to keep online thriving. But free rolls are a necessary tool to the sites. All the big sites have them and sites like BOL AND intertops have reduced to almost nothing. In last year the clientele has reduced dramatically.
 
MikeCarasone

MikeCarasone

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Total posts
1,877
Awards
2
Bots and Real time solvers are now a thing unfortunately. I believe that will be detrimental to online poker. Whenever money is involved, people will find the most dubious ways to attempt to obtain it. Players will stop playing online if they feel cheated and the chance of winning isn’t there. Add to the rise of costs to run a site then rake will continue to rise pushing away recreational players.
 
oneybiggs

oneybiggs

Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Total posts
1,470
Apart from the obvious meaning players waking up to the fact that random card generators dont exist and the computer will even out the field a couple of times per tourney and all that...theres simply not enough actual money in the world.Everyone and everything is grasping at money that simply does not exist and every loan or transaction made with interest creates more money that does not exist,ive said this many many times.If i lend you the only ten dollars in existence and tell you a want twelve back...we have a problem that wont go away and will continue to snowball , its coming crunch time and next time it crashes theyre freezing us all out of bank accounts and assets...not just a couple of countries like they did last time as a trial,and who did all that newly printed money go to...the same bankers that are already sucking the world dry and raping everyone and everything,thats why EVERYTHING is declining..they cant stop..they wont stop,and its all been written and warned about from days of old.You know i saw a post from one of the lovely ladies from admin in one of the god threads outlining some truly terrible stuff from the bible which i totally agree it shouldnt be about and felt like commenting,but didnt because i totally appreciate why it was written,but me,myself...i use discernment as instructed in the same book and i cast those horrible things aside and cherish and explore the meanings of things like,"if you are going to lend to your fellow man do it without interest" or "all flesh is like green grass and their loving kindness is like the blossom of the field".i guess the simple answer is,if people cant make money to get by where they think they should be able to they are going to move on,and its only going to get worse because the current commercial economic systems are not being changed and are being not only ignored but hidden also by labeled distractions like climate change and so on and so forth,removing the focus from an economic structure that is causing all the problems...the earth is reeling in agony and they continue shipping new zealand meat to Australia and Australian meat to New Zealand...this is what is meant again when the good book says we should not take the good sugar cane from far off lands...its a generalisation of what mankind is doing wrong and the effects it will have in the long run,which is where we are at globally today....bla bla bla question answered? lol.
 
oneybiggs

oneybiggs

Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Total posts
1,470
Starting to see news on closures of offices for poker stars and articles that online poker is declining. Most sites have declined in free rolls. All but ACR, THEY SEEM TO BE STEPPING IT UP and pokerstars. Not really sure of party poker. How are you going to entice without freebees?

To suggest the decline is only happening online is false. Live play is dropping too. But at a much slower rate. Online is taking a hit and would love to hear why you think it might be?:thumpdown
You know it Bigpappa,u know it.Hey it truly amazes me that ACR is giving away 50 x $6 tickets every two hours and still keeping their head above water as far as we know,good luck to them i say,from what ive seen in my 8 or so years they deserve to be the next number one in online poker,many would disagree but every other big site ive seen 100% solid rigged action..i mean 100% not just suspicion due to bad beats or discons..i mean SOLID evidence ive personally endured,but i have yet to see it on ACR.gl gl.
 
B

bigpappa325

Visionary
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
Total posts
995
You know it Bigpappa,u know it.Hey it truly amazes me that ACR is giving away 50 x $6 tickets every two hours and still keeping their head above water as far as we know,good luck to them i say,from what ive seen in my 8 or so years they deserve to be the next number one in online poker,many would disagree but every other big site ive seen 100% solid rigged action..i mean 100% not just suspicion due to bad beats or discons..i mean SOLID evidence ive personally endured,but i have yet to see it on ACR.gl gl.

ACR has been terrible to me. Only site been worse to me is Inter tops cash games. Good news is we can play at the cc free rolls so ill see ya there. good luck because your going to need it.:icon_king
 
Debi

Debi

Forum Admin
Administrator
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Total posts
70,632
Awards
20
O i thought i read that money won from free rolls had to play enough to generate 50% of the winning on rake on other play. So most players in free rolls who win get eaten up by regs who usually play multiple tables creating even more rake. Keeping tables full is the key. Maybe i was mis informed.

I found this on the forum

Intertops requires that you rake 50% of all Freeroll winnings before you can withdraw


Free rolls may give some chips to play knowing the average player isnt winning enough to pay the rake. If he is good enough he going to produce much more rake. Either way it doesnt look like the site is loosing money just swapping it back and fort to keep players on the tables.

Dont take it wrong i appreciate the free rolls. My occasional deposits are not going to keep online thriving. But free rolls are a necessary tool to the sites. All the big sites have them and sites like BOL AND INTERTOPS have reduced to almost nothing. In last year the clientele has reduced dramatically.


They are the only site who does this - and most players don't bother with it.
 
C

Criminal Bizzy

Rock Star
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Total posts
156
I think the "decline" of online play is a combination of regulation and market saturation. I used to not play online because of trust issues with having my money sit in an online account. Eventually I got over it and just kept small amounts online, enough to buy in to what ever game I was playing at the time. When I did start to play online I learned a lot about all the different sites that are out there, and there are A LOT of sites. With so many sites out there it is difficult to find a good site that you can reliably cash out on.

Then you have crypto-currencies and bad actors trying to make a quick buck. Sure it makes it easier to transfer money but the bad actors gave a bad name to those who are trying to be legitimate. I mention the site I have been playing on lately at a home game and the first thing everyone started talking about is how careful you have to be when playing online.

At the end of the day there are many reasons why there is a current decline but I don't think online poker will ever die out. We live in an age of information. It might not grow but eventually a new generation will want to play and sign up online.
 
MattRyder

MattRyder

🍏 Tech That Works!
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Total posts
8,036
Awards
15
Regulations be damned - a good business model delivered by great mangers and great LEADERS of men and women, with highly capable financial, business, technical and operational staffers will ALWAYS succeed! There is absolutely no way such an operation can fail.

It's ALL about the PEOPLE!

Online poker is no different.
 
Last edited:
lcid86

lcid86

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Total posts
3,003
Awards
3
US
Regulation has made it tough for US players, but IMO the biggest problem is the difficulty cashing out. In the good old days, I'd get a check for stars in a week. Now, there always seems to be a new requirement to cash out. I treat online as practice for live poker. It's just monopoly money to me.
 
Sintubai

Sintubai

Visionary
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Total posts
728
Awards
4
I believe that at some point unsuccessful players playing online, some unbelievable bad beats, difficulty getting immediate support to resolve a request, some withdrawal difficulties happen and this makes some players discredit and move away from the online tables.
 
edenman1

edenman1

Visionary
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Total posts
868
Awards
1
I have heard some stories about decline, but at my main site, 888, things seem to be going smoothly. Its true you need to jump thru a few more hoops these days for freerolls, but things like the 1K free casino mix-up has been running every week for 10+ years..
 
Last edited:
oneybiggs

oneybiggs

Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Total posts
1,470
ACR has been terrible to me. Only site been worse to me is Inter tops cash games. Good news is we can play at the cc free rolls so ill see ya there. good luck because your going to need it.:icon_king
Haha ,all good bigpapa.Different strokes for different folks i guess,or horses for courses.gl 2u2 because we are all going to need it lol.See u there:laugh:
 
C

Criplgamer

Rock Star
Joined
Jul 16, 2019
Total posts
169
Rebuy tournaments and bots/AI as well as sites getting greedy and fixing the RNG and having employees play with superuser status on unregulated sites has hurt online poker.

The biggest issue is it should be legal across the USA. It isn't. So we have to put our trust in people out for a buck and many times those people aren't trustworthy.
 
abwil2

abwil2

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Total posts
370
As said early there are ALOT of factors. Most people i have played live with if you bring up online poker first and foremost is they dont trust it second is the players who would rather play bingo then poker and then there are very few sites that will let Americans play without jumping thru hoops to deposit or play thru or withdraw.

Oneybiggs You make some very valid points with your big post. GREED is a HUGE problem effecting all working people
 
najisami

najisami

Visionary
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Total posts
809
Awards
3
it is really sad to hear about "the" decline more and more. I was speaking to a friend just yesterday and he said that they can't play online anymore in switzerland. More than that, it wasn't a government decision but the people who voted so !!
 
tw082

tw082

Legend
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Total posts
1,681
Awards
7
I'm sure multiple reasons play a part. First economy decline obviously, in such times extra curricular always first to go. I don't know how it was before a year ago b/c i have only been playing bout a yr but the manner in witch the cards fall to favor the house and it's stable with unlimited reentry's & no fear playing so can take advantage of live or die river can't help. Everything is rigged to empty our pockets I wouldn't be surprised if the whole moneymaker thing wasn't set up to create the boom. But i'm a skeptic at heart.:rolleyes:
 
T

TpaEnforcement

Visionary
Joined
May 2, 2018
Total posts
868
Awards
2
Back in the day with freerolls, they got everyone hooked.Now they have declined , cause players weren't depositing money. But they were withdrawing. They need a way , to make money cause it is a business. That's why not as many freerolls like back in the day. Freerolls they do have, just wont be for much. It sucks but they want, our money and not to give free money too many players. They figure once they lowered freerolls players would start depositing, so that's why it has declined.
 
finaltable1

finaltable1

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Total posts
1,809
Awards
8
Apart from the obvious meaning players waking up to the fact that random card generators dont exist and the computer will even out the field a couple of times per tourney and all that...theres simply not enough actual money in the world.Everyone and everything is grasping at money that simply does not exist and every loan or transaction made with interest creates more money that does not exist,ive said this many many times.If i lend you the only ten dollars in existence and tell you a want twelve back...we have a problem that wont go away and will continue to snowball , its coming crunch time and next time it crashes theyre freezing us all out of bank accounts and assets...not just a couple of countries like they did last time as a trial,and who did all that newly printed money go to...the same bankers that are already sucking the world dry and raping everyone and everything,thats why EVERYTHING is declining..they cant stop..they wont stop,and its all been written and warned about from days of old.You know i saw a post from one of the lovely ladies from admin in one of the god threads outlining some truly terrible stuff from the bible which i totally agree it shouldnt be about and felt like commenting,but didnt because i totally appreciate why it was written,but me,myself...i use discernment as instructed in the same book and i cast those horrible things aside and cherish and explore the meanings of things like,"if you are going to lend to your fellow man do it without interest" or "all flesh is like green grass and their loving kindness is like the blossom of the field".i guess the simple answer is,if people cant make money to get by where they think they should be able to they are going to move on,and its only going to get worse because the current commercial economic systems are not being changed and are being not only ignored but hidden also by labeled distractions like climate change and so on and so forth,removing the focus from an economic structure that is causing all the problems...the earth is reeling in agony and they continue shipping New Zealand meat to Australia and Australian meat to New Zealand...this is what is meant again when the good book says we should not take the good sugar cane from far off lands...its a generalisation of what mankind is doing wrong and the effects it will have in the long run,which is where we are at globally today....bla bla bla question answered? lol.

You falsely believe that only bankers are speculating with money. Money is just a condition, it's a open source condition for speculation for everyone on this planet. Money have no real value, we don't eat them, we don't wear them, we don't fuel our cars with money. It's a condition for exchange. If you accept the rules of exchange proposed to you by someone then you're playing his game, if you're proposing your own rules - then you're playing your game with your customers.

Simple example: Farmer has apple tree, apples grow once or twice a year. Tree is giving 100kilograms of apples per year, Farmer sells them for $100. Farmer has $100 bill in his wallet. The Buyer has 100kilograms of apples... 3 months later The Buyer will eat all apples and will have 0 kilograms of apples, while Farmer will have $100 bill in his pocket. Is there any difference in this speculation compared to Bankers speculations? Nope, no difference. The Buyer agreed to play Farmers game instead of planting his own apple tree.


Added value for the service or product isn't actually a problem of a snowball rolling from the top of the mountain if you're standing on top of the mountain. It might be a problem for those who stand below, in the valley under the mountain. It's some sort of artificial selection. Since you've been born you always have a choice. You can either spend your days like a squirrel in a
the spinning wheel = going to your job, and sitting in front of your screen watching funny videos or some kardashians or superheroes or whatever you're wasting your time for... or you can study all available options, learn something new and move your life to a different level again and again, climbing on top of the mountain. Some people are unhappy with choices they've made in the past, because these choices haven't fulfilled their expectations... do they really need to blame banker/god/president in their own mistakes? If you don't know the rules then i think it's good to learn the rules better before starting the game.:flute:
 
oneybiggs

oneybiggs

Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Total posts
1,470
You falsely believe that only bankers are speculating with money. Money is just a condition, it's a open source condition for speculation for everyone on this planet. Money have no real value, we don't eat them, we don't wear them, we don't fuel our cars with money. It's a condition for exchange. If you accept the rules of exchange proposed to you by someone then you're playing his game, if you're proposing your own rules - then you're playing your game with your customers.

Simple example: Farmer has apple tree, apples grow once or twice a year. Tree is giving 100kilograms of apples per year, Farmer sells them for $100. Farmer has $100 bill in his wallet. The Buyer has 100kilograms of apples... 3 months later The Buyer will eat all apples and will have 0 kilograms of apples, while Farmer will have $100 bill in his pocket. Is there any difference in this speculation compared to Bankers speculations? Nope, no difference. The Buyer agreed to play Farmers game instead of planting his own apple tree.


Added value for the service or product isn't actually a problem of a snowball rolling from the top of the mountain if you're standing on top of the mountain. It might be a problem for those who stand below, in the valley under the mountain. It's some sort of artificial selection. Since you've been born you always have a choice. You can either spend your days like a squirrel in a
the spinning wheel = going to your job, and sitting in front of your screen watching funny videos or some kardashians or superheroes or whatever you're wasting your time for... or you can study all available options, learn something new and move your life to a different level again and again, climbing on top of the mountain. Some people are unhappy with choices they've made in the past, because these choices haven't fulfilled their expectations... do they really need to blame banker/god/president in their own mistakes? If you don't know the rules then i think it's good to learn the rules better before starting the game.:flute:
Falsely believe what?RUBBISH..you really want me to detail everything linked to the bankers,its all the same garbage,oil,food chains weapons,and you seem to completely miss the point being that every loan made on interest and many other things create more money that doesnt exist,and you falsely believe the apple farmer as you put it (grower actually) wont have his hundred squeezed back out of him by the same said economic prison,i need people like you sitting at the poker table haha see you there.:reddy:
 
Top