Is Online Poker Rigged?

[Bob1224]

First I want to say It's great we can have this conversation here. I won't say which forum but if anyone said anything negative about Global or any other online site they would be beaten to a pulp by a handful of regs who take it personal or have a vested interest in the site.
How my two cents and then a question.
I do believe most online site rng's are set up for action. Not only does it increase the rake it also keeps players from getting bored and leaving. Mtt's seem to be geared to "get her done" so you buy into another. On Global you will see the large stacks suck out on the small stack repeatedly. It's all about the site making money. As far as the site cheating me personally, I don't think so. Are other players cheating, if not I'm sure they are trying. All that said I still play at Global but I play small stakes.
Now my question.
Does anyone know if in states that have legalized online poker does the state gaming commission check the site to make sure the cards are random and everything is as legit?

 

[manzanillo53]

Debi I wish I could agree with you but my luck in online poker is so bad it can not be just by chance. I have learned not to play all in hands at certain points in the game knowing it will loose. Yet in live cash games I am doing very well. I have played in Vegas, Europe, UK, South Africa and now here in mexico( I travelled a lot) with ups and downs as any player has. But online is ridiculous. I lost a small amount of money when the site I was on folded so I have never deposited on any other. My believe is that there is an algorithm that prevents non depositors from winning. I hope I am wrong, if so my bad luck should stop at some point, it has been two years.

 

[astros]

sometimes it feels rigged, even in your favor at times, but im gonna believe its not

 

[manzanillo53]

A lot of players make this claim when they suffer a series of bad beats - we get our share of them around here.

Let's have a serious discussion about it. Read this article:

Is online poker safe or rigged?

There is some really good information in that article that explains some of the misconceptions players have.

The thing I see the most is players having a bad day or even a bad week - or they are making a lot of wrong decisions - and they instantly think the game is cheating them.

They will post hands and say "No way should this happen!" - and I know instantly they have never played live poker. I have been playing live poker for about 10 years and I have seen it all happen in a situation where it can not possibly be rigged.

What are your thoughts?

(ps - this is not the place to post your bad beat hands!)

Yesterday I got so close to the money, within 10 places to go and I had enough chips to just sit out and wait, but nooooo. I made some of the dumbest moves and then went all in on a hunch, lost it all. No bad beats or rigged system, just really bad playing.

 

[lontrus]

The companies have no incentive to rig the game against you.

People feed on each other there and the companies just profit off it.

My experience has been very fair but I only looked at it that way after 7ish years of playing.

 

[mariusz_raczyk]

????

Not to mention they do need to regain the goodwill of a lot of the players that are sticking with them through this craziness. Sadly in USA we don't really have other options.

 

[Criplgamer]

Most sites I will say are rigged. I'm sorry but I've seen a shit ton of hands live over the years. 16 years now. Nobody can make the correct calls Everytime OOP preflop with trash and I have actively started bot hunting any site that people "recommend".

BetOnline = rigged for the house except micro stakes cash and even there it is questionable.
Bovada/ignition= Inconclusive so far. I've taken bad beats but it's hard to tell if they are real people due to the very narrow chat box that doesn't allow table talk. IMO this makes me lean more towards cheating /bots playing then not.

intertops= The jury is still out. No hands played there.

Betting online.ag- I just got into their poker room yesterday. 98% of the players I met in a 100 gauranteed were real people and I placed 6th in the tournament after a 13 hr shift 4pm to 5am.

So far, I see nothing here that tells me there are bots everywhere but the jury remains out as I have a small sample size. Only took 1 reasonably bad beat all night , dude was conversing the whole time through chat so I know atleast he isn't a bot. bad beat taken in stride.

Look, people think folks are crazy talking about Bots, cheating ECT. But I'm sorry. Out of all my years playing live you will never see the amount of monster hands heads up weekly/monthly as you see daily on a reasonable buy in tourney online.

Period.

There is no such thing as an RNG and there is plenty of AI bot software flooding the market , easily obtained and is literally in the news right now with sites who are legit trying to catch those people cheating with Bot software.

This is in the news.
Years ago one of the largest poker sites online was busted having employees play games using admin privileges (they could see everyone's hole cards) and of course it shut down.
Previous scam poker sites -
Full tilt
CakePoker

And of course then biggie!
Absolute
"It’s almost impossible to steal the data from the server. However, this happened in 2007 at the poker room “Absolute Poker”. This is a clip from an article speaking on superuser accounts.



Now most of these shut down . Then reopened with a new name and the same scam.

It's up to you to determine if where you are playing is full of either other players using programs like Polaris(Pokerbot software) or superuser accounts.

I have played a ton of hands on BetOnline. It's a SCAM. Bovada/Ignition. Likely scam if not full blown bot fest riddled card room. There is no real chat feature. That's sketchy.

Anyways . Choose wisely. For now I'm gonna play some on betting online.ag. Unless something changes.

 

[puzzlefish]

The companies have no incentive to rig the game against you.

People feed on each other there and the companies just profit off it.

My experience has been very fair but I only looked at it that way after 7ish years of playing.

Obviously. They would rig it against everyone equally. The incentive is more profit through faster tournaments and bigger pots in cash games for more rake. Until somebody comes up with a reasonable comparison of live data versus online data showing the relevant frequency distributions of boards containing draws vs draws (i.e. boat over flush, straight over set, etc.), all there is to do is blindly believe or be sceptical.

 

[Nngaor]

It’s not

 

[Criplgamer]

You say they have no incentive. That's hilariously naive.
The Rake is the incentive! Bust you out of this low buy in tourney so you can rebuy or jump into another. Typical for most sites.

House bots playing with super user controls. Employees playing using superuser accounts used for testing. This has all been proven and actually some have been prosecuted and lost a ton of funds or had them frozen.

There is no such thing as a random number generator.
No algorithm is random.
It is programmed to look random it isn't.
The algorithms are programmed for insane coolers more often.

AA against kk against AK Against 1010? How many times have people seen hands like this live? I play weekly live and have for 16years. Not nearly as much as it happens in one small tournament online.

This isn't seeing more hands. It's programmed in. Bad beats are good for the house.

Coolers and Bad Beats given by bots or superuser's are a win for the house. You will rebuy or jump into another tournament.

That's fact. Greed doesn't stop. It changes faces.
This is all that full tilt, bodog(Bovada),Absolute are and we're back when I played online during the online poker Glory days .... Greed machines built to scam you out of your money.

As soon as Bovada allows a chat box with real conversation I will stop with the scam name calling. I doubt I am wrong here.

Absolute bet was HUGE I'm the early 2000s. Then the truth came out. Then online poker became what it is today.

Full of shit rooms with no way of knowing how honest the poker networks are. Be it Chico, Horizon, Bovada(Bodog) ECT.

Please stop being Naive. Just like a casino the house always wins In the long run.

 

[drhousethebest]

On line poker may be rigged but that does not necessarily mean that it is unfair to the players.
A poker room might rigg the deal to maximize their profit but since the players are not playing against the house, the games could still be fair.
What you might see for instance in mtt is that the deal often tends to favor the best players in order to end the tournament asap. This way the house can put up more tourneys and rake in more cash.
For example, a live tourney with a couple of thousand entrants may take 7 days to complete. A similar tourney on line takes only about 12 hours to complete. This is probably not just happening by chance alone.

If they control the cards somehow, of course is not fair for the players. you are pre-determinate to lose a hand before it start. How is that fair??

I see very often, that lower pair win more often that bigger poker pairs. 88 vs KK, person with 88 always hit a set.
It has to be completely random so its fair.

 

[n1ckoftime]

Depends if im up or down money on it ofcourse

 

[poltad]

It’s Simple

Until properly regulated the propensity to rig and cheat is too great given lack of proper oversight. I would venture to say those in reputable jurisdictions much less likely. The UK seal of approval along with the few states in US are the only reassuring authorities where at least the house is highly regulated. Everything is is the Wild Wild West. How rampant? Tough to say and losing players will be quick to blame but if the house can make more money with little risk then assume yes of course cheating is happening on non regulated sites. Question is how much?

 

[Criplgamer]

There is no such thing as a RCG . They are all programmed by someone. If that someone works outside of the company they are programming it for and owns the keys to the castle alone then I would be happy to say it's not.

If the RCG is built by the poker room(most are), then they have incentive to cheat the players.

Also other than the RCGs my main gripe is the bot players.
If I can buy AI poker bot software , don't you think a grey area poker site like BetOnline would use bot players to play for the house in cash games? Yes!

Plenty of videos on YouTube to back my statements up.

So far. Global is the only site I'll play. Real people. Verified with your driver's license and actually they have decent tournaments and good payouts. More like your local casino.

 

[GWU73]

People have cheated. People will cheat. This is true live and online. That said; No, online poker on reputable sites is not rigged. Rigged sited don't last. There is too much data available to players.

I think we all want to believe we are good, and have the right to win. The first is rarely right, and the second never is.

 

[abwil2]

I took off a few years from online cause of this very subject and i come back and it seems worse then before. Ive also played live for roughly same amount of years as online(12) minus the 4 years off from online. You will see more bad beats in 1 SNG then you will in a years worth of playing live 2 days a week.

It may not be rigged for any one player but its very obvious its rigged for max action for the site. As said above to think otherwise is naive. Doesnt matter what level of play it is.
Hell they actually make more money off the (micro) smaller levels of play since there are many more who play them and many more games available.

So IMO its definitely rigged, not for any one player but if the fish leave, the site cant make money

 

[jsnake716]

So these "online rigged" threads seem to catch fire every 6 months or so. It will die down and then pick up///// My question is to all of you who "know" not think but you knowonline poker is rigged. May I ask a simple question?? What thehell are you doing here? This isan online poker community. We play online poker?? Now for me, I do not have proof of anything. I believe there is collusion between players and I know "bots' are getting better and better. I am just here "grinding" out in the micro to small stakes streets, turning a profit, in fact, the more I study the game the more Ihave been winning. I cannot live off my poker income but it provides me with some nice extra money.

Now back to my point, I play because I found out i can beat the lower stakes games. Yes, the rake is high but if I put time in, game selecting and finding the softest 1-7 $ buy-in MTT's I can win. BUT if all of you are convinced that the game is rigged, why are you guys playing and depositing money?? I would never be here, if I "knew" the games are rigged. I just never understood how people will write paragraphs about how bad it all is, but they are back on the tables ,playing a rigged game?? It is amazing that you all will play a game you are being cheated at.

 

[Cajin007]

My Answer is...

So these "online rigged" threads seem to catch fire every 6 months or so. It will die down and then pick up///// My question is to all of you who "know" not think but you knowonline poker is rigged. May I ask a simple question?? What thehell are you doing here? This isan online poker community. We play online poker?? Now for me, I do not have proof of anything. I believe there is collusion between players and I know "bots' are getting better and better. I am just here "grinding" out in the micro to small stakes streets, turning a profit, in fact, the more I study the game the more Ihave been winning. I cannot live off my poker income but it provides me with some nice extra money.

Now back to my point, I play because I found out i can beat the lower stakes games. Yes, the rake is high but if I put time in, game selecting and finding the softest 1-7 $ buy-in MTT's I can win. BUT if all of you are convinced that the game is rigged, why are you guys playing and depositing money?? I would never be here, if I "knew" the games are rigged. I just never understood how people will write paragraphs about how bad it all is, but they are back on the tables ,playing a rigged game?? It is amazing that you all will play a game you are being cheated at.

Well, as someone who has programmed for years, altering the software is easy.
Burying the evidence is easy, and integrity checks on the offshore sites are sub-standard at their best.

Now, as to why some of us continue to play on these sites?
Well, for me having never deposited a dime sense the days of fulltiltpoker, having the ability to beat a system designed to encourage fish to a lake only helps to improve my game.

And I get the opportunity to make some money in the process.
In other words, I risk nothing, but gain lots.
As the sites change and adapt, so must I.

Playing is the challenge, winning is just a bonus!

 

[abwil2]

So these "online rigged" threads seem to catch fire every 6 months or so. It will die down and then pick up///// My question is to all of you who "know" not think but you knowonline poker is rigged. May I ask a simple question?? What thehell are you doing here? This isan online poker community. We play online poker?? Now for me, I do not have proof of anything. I believe there is collusion between players and I know "bots' are getting better and better. I am just here "grinding" out in the micro to small stakes streets, turning a profit, in fact, the more I study the game the more Ihave been winning. I cannot live off my poker income but it provides me with some nice extra money.

Now back to my point, I play because I found out i can beat the lower stakes games. Yes, the rake is high but if I put time in, game selecting and finding the softest 1-7 $ buy-in MTT's I can win. BUT if all of you are convinced that the game is rigged, why are you guys playing and depositing money?? I would never be here, if I "knew" the games are rigged. I just never understood how people will write paragraphs about how bad it all is, but they are back on the tables ,playing a rigged game?? It is amazing that you all will play a game you are being cheated at.

So you must be the donk catching your miracle 2 or 3 outers all the time.cause there is NO WAY you are making money playing micro. Must be pushing trash and getting lucky an awful lot to try and tell anyone your making money on micro stakes. The beats happen way too often. I have played live and online for 14 years and i will never see live in months or years what i see in one sit n go. Im a plus ROI player especially out of micros but unless your one of the very lucky few you can not beat the donk(programmed for max action) luck. No its not that the discussion ever goes away its the donk players who try to admonish every one who isnt lucky.
Just like earlier took 2 bad ones to put me out of $1 multi player sng on ACR first hand got AK hit 2 aces on flop i raised pre bet on flop got reraised pushed all in call turn is a 2 fkin outer 8 for guys pkt 8s.
Other game I have JJ next to button i raise guy reraises i call flop is 347 he bets i push he calls he raised. he raised heavy on flop with 56.
Lower levels are full of this every hand. So you have to be dam lucky to make money most of the time. good means shit in lower levels

 

[abwil2]

why do i play cause rarely i mean that rarely best hand holds up and i can cash and i keep hoping that being unlucky doesnt keep happening. I dont usually ever have to hit to win but online has most believing that 2,3 and 4 outers are the NUTZ

 

[James_Harrison]

why do i play cause rarely i mean that rarely best hand holds up and i can cash and i keep hoping that being unlucky doesnt keep happening. I dont usually ever have to hit to win but online has most believing that 2,3 and 4 outers are the NUTZ

My feelings exactly, cant win if you dont play. I dont know, i try to keep an open mind whether it is rigged or not and include bots and stuff in that category.. and we all know about them these days.

 

[errsat]

a real proof that the card generator .RNG is RIGGED: TAKE A LOOK at this hand on boom , i have AA in middle position
notice the buyin , PLAYER 7 WITH JJ is agro fish , player8 with AJs is a freeroll player , me recreational still not a grinder IN CUT OFF with AA , but this type of hands happen to often , if you read my old posts this hands is the exact proof at what i'm saying.
https://www.boomplayer.com/31478398_6E6C933E68
1 .what are the chances hands to be distributed like this?
2. what are the chances the worst hand preflop to overcome like this for a freeroll player? ( i cecked him on scope after that hand) he basically have Almost no chance to win at flop .
by the way in that torney i have another 2 hands with impossibile setups.

 

[tomk7788]

I see these run outs frequently online. Today I called an all in from a MP player with QQ from the SB. He had A3, the flop comes A37 and the turn is a Q. Out of 44 remaining cards in the deck there are 2 aces left in the deck and he hit one of them on the river.

Preflop I was a 70% favorite, after the flop I was a 92% underdog, after the turn I was a 95% favorite and lost to a 2 outer on the river.

 

[BoyNamedSude]

Here is a "thought" on the topic... I just played a game of Omaha H/L... 1 Royal and 3 quads!

 

[prizzy711]

If you believe this, it's best you don't play.