Can/Did you improve in poker without using learning tools?

[mj22]

I really asked myself this question multiple times when I started playing poker because I didn't have much money to spend on poker lessons and really wanted to become better at poker, and all I see nowadays on twitch and other platforms is buy this course or watch this video to improve and many advertisements.. I mean sure with years passing and poker is evolving its way of play and many studies into poker can help.. but cant you just play without someone coaching you or watching lessons.. I mean that's how the game was going ages ago.. no?

I started this thread just to know if buying bundles or getting coached by a pro these years do really add something to players, or just continue by myself and hope to become better and better from my mistakes because until now I think they are the best teacher for me (I'm kind of in a stable situation in poker).

 

[Chase]

I too am interested in the answers to your questions. I'll be watching for some insight.

In the meantime, I'm around a third of the way through the Cardschat Poker course. Seems like pretty high quality training at no cost. I'm more of an audiovisual learner so I really appreciate the video lessons, especially the example hands that Collin the instructor uses to explain the reasons for making certain moves and not making others.

Honestly though, I'm pretty much starting from scratch so I have nowhere to go but up.

 

[CallmeFloppy]

I think you first need to answer, " What is my goal in poker?"

For example for myself - I have a wife and three kids. I do not have the time nor the expendable income to be able to invest in trying to become a pro player, nor would I have the risk tolerance for times when hit lulls. This is all assuming to that I even had the mental ability to become the type of player that those types of investments would pay off. For me, poker has been a hobby that I have been lucky enough to make a little money off of at the right stakes, but get run over when I play outside my skill level. I am cool with that.

Ask yourself what you want to get out of poker, what you are willing to invest in it, and how serious you are to dedicating to getting better. Then you will better be able to decide for yourself if it's worth being coached.

Til then, take advantage of the resources you have available, compare different strategies (just cause some are different than another's doesn't make one wrong) and find what works (generally) for you.

 

[mina271]

They say you learn from mistakes, you just have to be able to see when you made a mistake. Losing a hand doesn't mean you made a mistake. If you want to learn poker without books, videos or coaches then you can come a long way but you don't see where the mistakes are and if you don't see the mistakes you can't improve them either. In spite of that, you definitely need a lot of poker experience, which you get after you've played for several years. Luckily there are many ways you can learn without investing money and whoever can and wants to should do it.

 

[LetterRip]

You could probably improve quite a bit from free resources. The problem is that you can get inconsistent advice if using multiple online resources. Also things like preflop decisions assume particular ranges on flop turn and river - if you vary from the assumptions baked into the range, you can potentially end up worse from partial strategy implementation, for instance failing to checkraise or barrel and 3barrel at the proper frequencies - can turn a winning preflop strategy into a losing strategy.

 

[Kenzie 96]

As stated above, depends on your long range goals & of course how much free time & discretionary income you have.
I played golf through high school, dropped it for 10 years, then took it up again as my main hobby for 20+ years. Never took a lesson, bought all my clubs without a fitting & enjoyed the hell out of it. Fished from the time I was a kid until my youngest daughter left home, never owned any fancy fishing rigs, or bought a boat. Again, enjoyed myself a great deal. They were hobbies. I had a family & job to spend my time & money on. You want to get better at poker, play more poker, avail yourself of the free information at CC or where ever. As you improve evaluate the time spent away from other activities & responsibilities & ask yourself, if the additional time & money invested makes sense.

 

[jcxmendes]

I ate now did not buy training . Just watch some video lessons at PS school at first. to get a sense of the dynamics of the game

 

[darkvick]

until now I've never bought any kind of tool, I only use the frees

 

[Evan Jarvis]

I really asked myself this question multiple times when I started playing poker because I didn't have much money to spend on poker lessons and really wanted to become better at poker, and all I see nowadays on twitch and other platforms is buy this course or watch this video to improve and many advertisements.. I mean sure with years passing and poker is evolving its way of play and many studies into poker can help.. but cant you just play without someone coaching you or watching lessons.. I mean that's how the game was going ages ago.. no?

I started this thread just to know if buying bundles or getting coached by a pro these years do really add something to players, or just continue by myself and hope to become better and better from my mistakes because until now I think they are the best teacher for me (I'm kind of in a stable situation in poker).

Great question MJ,

In my early days of playing I attempted to learn what I could on my own. But, I found that as soon as I started reading books and watching videos my game improved much more quickly.

Being able to access information from someone who has already made a lot of the common mistakes shortens the learning curve and speed improvement.

It doesn't mean that just watching videos or buying bundles will make you an amazing player. No, still much practice is required to understand the concepts and really turn that 'knowledge' into 'wisdom'.

I find that going thru the right courses (like the free cardschat course here) is much more efficient for learning in the beginning than just playing. It gives you a set of rules that you can trust in to avoid the major costly mistakes.

Tools are great but it's important to know how to use them. So while I think tools are very valuable and generally worth investing in, investing time in playing and practice is equally valuable, and the best approach is to combine the two!

 

[YuriSLopes]

By tools I believe you meant something beyond books and videos right?

I do use Flopzilla and Poker Tracker.

There are many other tools but for now these are more than enough.

I had the need to use Flopzilla so I could improve on my hand reading and I'm still getting used to it.

And nowadays it's impossible for me to play without Poker Tracker HUD.

And Poker Tracker not only has the HUD but also has so many other tools for you to improve your game and leaks.

Practice is always needed of course and sometimes doesn't matter how much you study, you only get to truly understand when you're doing it.

 

[tihomir_kula]

Shakespeare`s question-to be or not to be!

 

[Polytarp]

I really asked myself this question multiple times when I started playing poker because I didn't have much money to spend on poker lessons and really wanted to become better at poker, and all I see nowadays on twitch and other platforms is buy this course or watch this video to improve and many advertisements.. I mean sure with years passing and poker is evolving its way of play and many studies into poker can help.. but cant you just play without someone coaching you or watching lessons.. I mean that's how the game was going ages ago.. no?

I started this thread just to know if buying bundles or getting coached by a pro these years do really add something to players, or just continue by myself and hope to become better and better from my mistakes because until now I think they are the best teacher for me (I'm kind of in a stable situation in poker).

I'm glad Evan Jarvis weighed in here because I was going to suggest that you look him up within this forum. Follow his lead and suggestions and you will be a better player. Keep this in mind however, you can't be taught what you can't learn. Find out your limitations (this is a personal journey) as quickly and thoroughly as possible because there are certain things you may do in ignorance of a better way that you may not be able to come back from. Above all, learn from the mistakes of others..avoid them yourself and exploit them in others by recognizing traps and building traps..getting caught in your own trap is an occasional consequence

 

[mj22]

Thanks all for your answers, I'm looking them up and take what's really helpful for me and try to start working on it.

Special thanks to Gripsed for taking time and sharing his thoughts on this with me and the community. Id like to mention that watching you on twitch helped me in some way.

 

[KRANKES]

You can only improve in Poker by playing Poker. If you want to improve in Helping Tools, use helping tools.

 

[Oranaro]

I think that's it's very possible, the problem is that it will take way longer time. Studying your ranges might be done with maths calculations and common sens, but you lose the statistical perspective, just as a part of the problem. Having to check the odds manually to review your hands is exhaustiv , but still possible.
There is a positive side, when you do things manually, you usually remember better.

 

[odonob]

I have learnt from buying a few poker books. Watching poker on tv and YouTube. Nothing beats playing live though.

 

[manzanillo53]

You can learn by yourself, like driving a stick. How many gears will you destroy before you learn what the clutch is for. So yes, l learn by yourself and loose a lot of money or spend a few bucks now and be taught how to keep your money and maybe even get money sooner.

 

[kkuk]

I think that everything depends on a person, on his innate abilities, talents.someone can study from books all their life, pay money for it and not have any results as a result.and someone can play for a couple of weeks and have a higher level than those described above for half a lifetime.but discipline, of course, is also an integral part.

 

[kkuk]

in general, the main thing is experience and practice, gentlemen.)

 

[PatriceM915]

Good afternoon friend

I will not say that I improved and became the expert, no, I evolved a little more watching good players playing and also playing. I improved by reading some articles on the subject. More like fun and not a profession.

 

[SopianaeExtra]

Short answer: Yes.

But I think without guidance and lessons your progress will come along slower and reaching wrong conclusions, only to dismiss them later again, will additionally hinder you.
There are many free strategy guides and tutoring videos online, and I can confidently testify that they refined my play.

 

[FF2586]

Hello
Of course you can learn by playing, watching people play, watching pros play, reading about poker in the forums...
But poker has now become very sofisticated and it is impossible to learn it all and to understand everything happening on the tables !
So those bundles you are talking about are like a guideline for players to know what to learn about I think, especially when you choose the source you buy from well.

Well, that's what I think about that.

Gl at the tables

 

[Niykk]

You can improve by just playing and drawing your own conclusions.
There is a person who won over a million $ tourney based on common sense, luck and no time dedicated to learning outside the poker room.

Unsophisticated play is not necessarily bad or unprofitable.

So I think yeah, you could improve on your own without special tools.
Reading articles and watching videos helps.

 

[jsiatime]

I too am interested in the answers to your questions. I'll be watching for some insight.

In the meantime, I'm around a third of the way through the Cardschat Poker course. Seems like pretty high quality training at no cost. I'm more of an audiovisual learner so I really appreciate the video lessons.

 

[winstono]

Before I ever played poker online or at brick and mortar casinos, I bought this video game called "world series of poker: Tournament Of Champions" by Activision for my GameCube some years ago. I don't know if you consider a video game a "learning tool" but I give this game a lot of credit for helping to develop me into a winning poker player.

I put the game settings to where all the AI players in the game acted instantly, so as soon as I made a decision it was my turn to act again. I would play the simulated wsop Main Event over and over. The gameplay was so fast that I could play the five day Main Event in minutes. It was fun and I played for hours at a time.

The first thing the game taught me is that I was terrible. Results like "You finished in 6,934 place" were common as I would frequently bust out on Day 1. No problem, quick reset and I'm starting over with another $10,000 buy in.

The first and maybe the best thing the game taught me came after I decided to see what the results would be if I folded every single hand no matter what. Surprisingly and a bit embarrassing, the results were far better than what I was averaging playing the game. A light bulb came on! I was playing way too many hands.

Eventually I got to where I could beat the game. This gave me confidence and now I wanted to play against real poker players. I soon found out that playing real people wasn't exactly the same as playing against the game's AI players and that I still had some growing to do but I did have a good head start.

You may enter my username on sharkscope (Chico Network) to see some of the results I've had. I started there playing freerolls. I've went from freerolls to $1,000+ bankrolls on other sites as well. I've also had favorable results going to casino poker rooms. I don't mean to sound braggadocious because I'm just a small stakes player but I am a winning player.

I haven't ever bought any poker books or poker tutorials, just $10 on a pre-used video game. That was my learning tool.

Good luck to you!