Pot odds mess

[YuriSLopes]

For god sake please can someone with enough knowledge tell me the truth about how to calculate pot odd's?

Some places I find pot odds math like that: pot + villain bet + hero call : hero call.
And at some I find: pot + villain bet : hero call.

Maybe there's more to it that simply don't know. I know there's a bunch of different odds. Like hands odds and combo odds, implied odds and so on.

I'm a little confused about poker math. There's been a year since I've started studying poker and I really want to improve on my math mostly cause I want to get better at online poker.

I'm studying all the free material out there. Started with PS school that teaches the second example.

Negreanu free material on Masterclass teaches the first example.

So, pot odds. Anyone?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nafor]

Pot odds will only give you half of the information that you need when you are making a decision. But since that is what you asked let's focus on that.

Your second math model is closer to truth. Pot odds are simply a comparison of two things. A comparison between the amount you can win (what is already in the pot + opponent's bet), and how much you need to risk to continue the game.

So if the pot is 45$ and the opponent bets 5$, you'll need to use 5$ to continue. Spending 5$ to win 50$ gives you 10 to 1 odds.

I recommend that you'll take a look at CC's own odds section, and if you want, you could check out our free course.

 

[Roller]

Pot odds are just the start, but the more math you put in the more calculating you are the easier you possibly can be exploited. Pot odds are a good starting point.

 

[Hermus]

The two things you get confused about are the odds calculation and the percentage calculation.

Odds first, if you're facing a 100% pot bet in a pot of $50. So the pot starting the action is $50. Villain bets $50. Hero is risking $50 to win $100 which equals 100:50 which equals 2:1 odds.

Now your percentage pot "odds", that are actually not odds but referred to as pot odds, is calculated as (pot + call)/call where again pot stands for pot starting the action + the bet you're facing. So for the same $50 bet in the same $50 pot we get (50+50+50)/50 = 33%

This is something rather useful to calculate because your equity is also expressed in percentages most of the time. Remember, equity represents the share of the pot you're expected to win if you play that exact situation unlimited times. We include the call into the equation because we play for the equity share of the entire pot including our call.

At the end of the day, they're just two different methods to write the same thing. 2:1 = 33%. I personally prefer working with percentages but either one is fine. Just use the method that you can convert to equity easiest because that's basically all that matters when calculating a profitable call.

 

[YuriSLopes]

Pot odds will only give you half of the information that you need when you are making a decision. But since that is what you asked let's focus on that.

Your second math model is closer to truth. Pot odds are simply a comparison of two things. A comparison between the amount you can win (what is already in the pot + opponent's bet), and how much you need to risk to continue the game.

So if the pot is 45$ and the opponent bets 5$, you'll need to use 5$ to continue. Spending 5$ to win 50$ gives you 10 to 1 odds.

I recommend that you'll take a look at CC's own odds section, and if you want, you could check out our free course.

The Become a winning poker player in 30 days is the next free course that I'll do.
Right now I'm doing all the ones at pokerstars.

So from what I understand the pot odds that gives us the ratio and doesn't consider the final pot with hero call bet is the one where we use our outs to evaluate if the action is profitable right?

And the other pot odds which apparently are not really the same are the ones where we use percentages and hero equity to evaluate if the call is profitable?

Maybe it's an early stage for me to figure pot odds. But as I said, really want to learn the math to be profitable.

Thanks for sharing brother.

 

[YuriSLopes]

The two things you get confused about are the odds calculation and the percentage calculation.

Odds first, if you're facing a 100% pot bet in a pot of $50. So the pot starting the action is $50. Villain bets $50. Hero is risking $50 to win $100 which equals 100:50 which equals 2:1 odds.

Now your percentage pot "odds", that are actually not odds but referred to as pot odds, is calculated as (pot + call)/call where again pot stands for pot starting the action + the bet you're facing. So for the same $50 bet in the same $50 pot we get (50+50+50)/50 = 33%

This is something rather useful to calculate because your equity is also expressed in percentages most of the time. Remember, equity represents the share of the pot you're expected to win if you play that exact situation unlimited times. We include the call into the equation because we play for the equity share of the entire pot including our call.

At the end of the day, they're just two different methods to write the same thing. 2:1 = 33%. I personally prefer working with percentages but either one is fine. Just use the method that you can convert to equity easiest because that's basically all that matters when calculating a profitable call.

Guess the replies can be repetitive but just to confirm.

These calculations have the same intent which is to know from these odds if hero call is profitable or not.

The one that doesn't add hero call to final pot which is the ratio one I'll use outs to figure if calling is profitable.

And for the other I'll compare to equity to figure if hero call is profitable?

Hahaha... There's books that I got and courses to do still. And most of all table to time to practice it all. But this confusion was bugging me making me cringing to know how these odds work.

Much appreciated.

 

[Nafor]

So from what I understand the pot odds that gives us the ratio and doesn't consider the final pot with hero call bet is the one where we use our outs to evaluate if the action is profitable right?

And the other pot odds which apparently are not really the same are the ones where we use percentages and hero equity to evaluate if the call is profitable?

Not quite. Pot odds are the same whether you look at them as a ratio (10:1) or turn them into percentages (10:1 equals roughly to 9 percent).

This answer is half of the information that you need to make a decision. The other important calculation is for evaluating how good is your hand in any given situation.

I assume you have already familiarized yourself with the 4 & 2 rule? It is a rough tool but it is good enough for most situations.

If you have, let's say two hearts in your hand and the flop is on the table with other two hearts, you can now calculate how likely it is for you to make a flush when when two cards are yet to come.

How many possible hearts are left - 9. If you are willing to play your hand until river your likelihood of making flush is 4 x 9 percent = 36%. If you miss the turn and there is only card left to come you make another calculation 2 x 9 = 18%.
If you are on the flop and you decide that you will only see turn and fold if you miss, then you should not use the 4 at all, and only multiply with 2.

Are you still with me?

The pot odds gave us a result of 9 percent. This means that our likelihood to win the hand has to be at least 9 percent to break even in the long run. So the thing you need to do is: compare your pot odds with the likelihood of winning the hand. If your likelihood of winning is higher (36 and 18 are bigger that 9), then making a call is profitable.

These are the very basics.

 

[YuriSLopes]

Not quite. Pot odds are the same whether you look at them as a ratio (10:1) or turn them into percentages (10:1 equals roughly to 9 percent).

This answer is half of the information that you need to make a decision. The other important calculation is for evaluating how good is your hand in any given situation.

I assume you have already familiarized yourself with the 4 & 2 rule? It is a rough tool but it is good enough for most situations.

If you have, let's say two hearts in your hand and the flop is on the table with other two hearts, you can now calculate how likely it is for you to make a flush when when two cards are yet to come.

How many possible hearts are left - 9. If you are willing to play your hand until river your likelihood of making flush is 4 x 9 percent = 36%. If you miss the turn and there is only card left to come you make another calculation 2 x 9 = 18%.
If you are on the flop and you decide that you will only see turn and fold if you miss, then you should not use the 4 at all, and only multiply with 2.

Are you still with me?

The pot odds gave us a result of 9 percent. This means that our likelihood to win the hand has to be at least 9 percent to break even in the long run. So the thing you need to do is: compare your pot odds with the likelihood of winning the hand. If your likelihood of winning is higher (36 and 18 are bigger that 9), then making a call is profitable.

These are the very basics.

Man, I'm getting the hang of it but I really got to practice it more.

I'm trying to put pot odds on my hand reviews. But you know what I got?
The poker workbook for math geeks.

I still have Pokerstar courses to finish and I'm holding myself not to jump straight to the book.Gonna take it slow though.

Still a bit confused about the proper formula.
Even though I know how to do the equity calculation and all.
Little by little I'll learn it all.

And I really appreciate your efforts and time sharing the knowledge you have about it.