Navin Sarabjeet
Legend
Bronze Level
hi, today i came across something like that. i played in the cc freeroll and mad a raise with qq UTG i get a reraise from small blind and a call from BB so i decide to call. pot is about 1100-ish i have 1400 back and the SM goes allin for about 1500 with a 8 high board. I put him on AA but still make the call and get ko-ed. So you see, i had a good read, but still made a bad call. So i have noticed today that i had a hard time folding with such a board. And this same player was going about 4-5 times earlier with 120/ 200 in the pot allin for his entire stack of 1500 chips. So maybe this worked unconsciously on me also for making such a bad call.
So i will try to improve this deficit of mine.
Just wanted to share this with you
Gl and may the cards be with you
So i will try to improve this deficit of mine.
Just wanted to share this with you
Gl and may the cards be with you
V
vladikov
Rock Star
Silver Level
This situation and I've experienced it. In poker players, players who play in the leagues and take their points play cautiously. Day I felt this situation that you and I only had AA and against me were QQ and of course to this one with his ladies tied And thrown me out of the tournament ...
PHX
Legend
Loyaler
I do not fold them. The number of times they have AA is way less than the time they have it. Plus you still got 20% of winning pot even if they do.
I would advise raising with them always no flatting with trying to set a fancy trap they backfire too often also do not play them scared some players tend to flat with them when facing a 3 bet or 4 bet with the intention of getting it in on any non ace flop this backfires often too as there is always an ace on the flop and KJ will bluff them out.
I would advise raising with them always no flatting with trying to set a fancy trap they backfire too often also do not play them scared some players tend to flat with them when facing a 3 bet or 4 bet with the intention of getting it in on any non ace flop this backfires often too as there is always an ace on the flop and KJ will bluff them out.
oakthyago
Rock Star
Platinum Level
J
JesusHMazzei
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Thanks all for your inputs, i think the vast majority says "NOOOO DON'T FOOOLD" and a few ones mention maybe checking and not re-re-raising like i did...
Also knowing the opponent, interpreting his re-re-re-raise(i think thats the correct number of 're's xD) as something monstruos if i had some knowledge of his style or something... I will keep that in mind, and change my approach to "if i dont know you im gonna suppose you dont bluff like that" from "if i dont know you im gonna consider you might be a bluffer"....
I still think i would have lost all my chips on that hand.. but well.. you live you learn... you get pissed off a little on the way... it's just life xD
Thanks to all
Also knowing the opponent, interpreting his re-re-re-raise(i think thats the correct number of 're's xD) as something monstruos if i had some knowledge of his style or something... I will keep that in mind, and change my approach to "if i dont know you im gonna suppose you dont bluff like that" from "if i dont know you im gonna consider you might be a bluffer"....
I still think i would have lost all my chips on that hand.. but well.. you live you learn... you get pissed off a little on the way... it's just life xD
Thanks to all
PapaC
Legend
Silver Level
I'm very sure it's more than ok for every player at your table. I can't see why any player would fold KK pre-flop. Or even not folding them all the way down if the flop looks good for your hand and the betting is easy for you to call them. Or what the hell, do some pushing of your own and try to push out some of those call, raise, and move all in donk players if that is even possible. But if you are a good player, you can find times that folding KK is in your best interest then the fold would be a great move, and it would be great if you got to see the hand unfold and you see it was the right move, and if you didn't you would have been on the rail.
n3rv
Visionary
Silver Level
It is okay to do anything in Poker as long as you have a well developed reason that you are happy with. For example, if your goal is to outlast your opponents in a tourney, you may want to play a smaller pot with KK. However, if your goal is to play loose aggressive early on to gain the chip lead in a freeroll then I think you played it right and just have to accept sometimes you run into AA, sometimes less.
Basically I would only fold if it was a tournament with a lot of money and a deep long structure and I knew the opponent had AA >50% of the time there. But I do not rule out folding as an option. The main reason I don't do it is because if I am in a situation with very few chips later on in the tourney I will be shoving in with less good hands in less good spots so it makes more sense to take risks with premium hands in premium spots with a lot of chips earlier on in my opinion.
Basically I would only fold if it was a tournament with a lot of money and a deep long structure and I knew the opponent had AA >50% of the time there. But I do not rule out folding as an option. The main reason I don't do it is because if I am in a situation with very few chips later on in the tourney I will be shoving in with less good hands in less good spots so it makes more sense to take risks with premium hands in premium spots with a lot of chips earlier on in my opinion.
Y
Yoo
Rock Star
Silver Level
If you fold KK preflop even when all in is required what hands would be good to play.
You wait 1h for a monster hand and than you fold i will not i am assuming that AA preflop has 80% chance to win....not 100% so you will play KK atleast til you see the flop if flop is something like A J J there you may consider to fold
You wait 1h for a monster hand and than you fold i will not i am assuming that AA preflop has 80% chance to win....not 100% so you will play KK atleast til you see the flop if flop is something like A J J there you may consider to fold
eberetta1
Legend
Loyaler
These are commonly called coolers, where you are almost forced into the hand with a monster, only to be beat by a bigger monster. You did the right thing. Now, if four other players are in the hand pre-flop, sometimes I would fold KK because my chances to win would be smaller with so many players.
T
Tricky123bet
Rock Star
Silver Level
People say that you shouldn't fold AA or KK ever because it's a good guideline for beginners to follow, because to be honest, you should fold them very seldom so you will make the correct play most often by always playing them.
That said, for you to fold KK you need information on your opponent. And that the whole table has been playing cautiosly is not good enough of a read for you to fold KK. You need a specific read on this opponent for you to be able to lay down KK.
I had one of those spots in a cash game recently. I opened somewhere in EP, a tight guy 3bet me somewhere in MP, it folds to me and I 4bet. Not a very good play by me, because when I look over at his stats, he has a 1% 3bet, which means he pretty much only 3bets with AA and KK.
And then he min 5bets. So I'm fairly surprised that I managed to lay it down to the 5bet so quickly. Because I know I was beat, as simple as that. Of course I was mad that I didn't just flat the 3bet, but that's not something that you can let influence your future decision making. Now someone might say that sample size was an issue. I don't remember how many hands I had on him, but well enough to know that a top 2% of hands is the loosest he can be in that situation. So what if he had AK or QQ? He probably didn't. I've gone all-in with KK against many players that had even a 3% or 4% 3bet stat, and they have almost always had AA. All the nits at the micros are not comfortable enough to go all-in with QQ or AK, because I have never seen a nit go all-in pre with anything but AA or KK.
So when I see this nit min 5bet me (which is also a sign that he has AA that doesn't want to scare me away) it hurts, but if he literally has AA a 100% of the time, instead of saying "well, I have KK so I can't fold", try to logically think if he can do it with anything but AA. If he can't, just fold KK (a HUD will help a lot for this, it's very hard to make such a precise read without one).
As for AA, it could be folded in satellites if you know you are already guaranteed a seat if you don't play anymore hands. And also if you see 5+ people going all-in in a hand, your chances to win with AA will go down by a lot. Otherwise you should always get AA all-in preflop if you can, since it's by far the best preflop hand you can get. But be ready to fold if the flop is bad.
To summarize: Never fold AA preflop in tournaments. Fold KK against super nitty opponents that YOU KNOW FOR A FACT only 3bets, 4bets or 5bets with AA or KK.
In the situation you described though, you can't be sure that he wouldn't do it with other hands too, so the money were going in anyway. Well played by you.
That said, for you to fold KK you need information on your opponent. And that the whole table has been playing cautiosly is not good enough of a read for you to fold KK. You need a specific read on this opponent for you to be able to lay down KK.
I had one of those spots in a cash game recently. I opened somewhere in EP, a tight guy 3bet me somewhere in MP, it folds to me and I 4bet. Not a very good play by me, because when I look over at his stats, he has a 1% 3bet, which means he pretty much only 3bets with AA and KK.
And then he min 5bets. So I'm fairly surprised that I managed to lay it down to the 5bet so quickly. Because I know I was beat, as simple as that. Of course I was mad that I didn't just flat the 3bet, but that's not something that you can let influence your future decision making. Now someone might say that sample size was an issue. I don't remember how many hands I had on him, but well enough to know that a top 2% of hands is the loosest he can be in that situation. So what if he had AK or QQ? He probably didn't. I've gone all-in with KK against many players that had even a 3% or 4% 3bet stat, and they have almost always had AA. All the nits at the micros are not comfortable enough to go all-in with QQ or AK, because I have never seen a nit go all-in pre with anything but AA or KK.
So when I see this nit min 5bet me (which is also a sign that he has AA that doesn't want to scare me away) it hurts, but if he literally has AA a 100% of the time, instead of saying "well, I have KK so I can't fold", try to logically think if he can do it with anything but AA. If he can't, just fold KK (a HUD will help a lot for this, it's very hard to make such a precise read without one).
As for AA, it could be folded in satellites if you know you are already guaranteed a seat if you don't play anymore hands. And also if you see 5+ people going all-in in a hand, your chances to win with AA will go down by a lot. Otherwise you should always get AA all-in preflop if you can, since it's by far the best preflop hand you can get. But be ready to fold if the flop is bad.
To summarize: Never fold AA preflop in tournaments. Fold KK against super nitty opponents that YOU KNOW FOR A FACT only 3bets, 4bets or 5bets with AA or KK.
In the situation you described though, you can't be sure that he wouldn't do it with other hands too, so the money were going in anyway. Well played by you.
E
effece
Rock Star
Silver Level
AgentXtreme
Legend
Silver Level
I won't fold it for sure , because he can have AK , people sometimes goes crazy with Ax 4-bet all in ans stuff , but if my oppenent is a Rock , I will at least see the flop , and then see how he gonna react to this flop