*** October Cash Chat ***

WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Nice work Lem!


My goals:
-to be confident and hopefully winning at 10NL FR (technically Im rolled for taking shots at 50NL but Im new to ring)
-to win more than $200 in a single mtt(I only play up to $3 buy-ins at mo)
-to win a satty and actually use it. I've won quite a few and always cashed them to build br.
-to put some kinda volume in at ring, not sure how much though yet!
to reread HOH 1/2/3 and maybe Harrington on ring
-to watch some strategy videos and take it in.


There, not to much to do!:eek: :eek: :eek:
GL all............

KD, I'd recommend skipping the HOC books. There is very little of value for a micro/small stakes player in them.

Would recommend NL Hold'em Theory and Practice or Professional No-Limit (basically anything by Ed Miller).
 
KerouacsDog

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cheers WV, will look out for them books next time im at the bookshop.
harrington taught me a lot about poker, guess it's not that relevant to micro stakes, but a lot of the concepts need refreshing in my brain, lol.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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cheers WV, will look out for them books next time im at the bookshop.
harrington taught me a lot about poker, guess it's not that relevant to micro stakes, but a lot of the concepts need refreshing in my brain, lol.

Don't get me wrong, I think that HoH is a GREAT set of books, but his cash game stuff really doesn't apply well to online games, at least not at the levels we play. His recommendations are a lot about defense and disguising your hands through randomization which may be fine sitting at the same high stakes table in a casino all the time but really has no place facing multitudes of different micro/small stakes opponents (or the same opponents who just don't notice).
 
KerouacsDog

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^^^yeah, I agree with you on that.
Problem is, coming to cardschat for 3 years and reading poker books/strategy guides etc, Ive learnt a lot of concepts, as Im sure we all have, that the average micro stake fish doesnt know anything about, and so these concepts dont work at 2nl/5nl, like they do at higher stakes(Im guessing) and it's really hard to go back to just playing ABC poker at ring, which is new to me anyway.
I'm so used to mtts, where, generally, I play tight in the early levels, wait for the fish to get knocked out, and then get into the serious poker where you can employ advanced concepts(i think they are advanced, anyway!) and more often than not they work.
Note to self: Dont get fancy at micro-cash, just play premium!
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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^^^yeah, I agree with you on that.
Problem is, coming to cardschat for 3 years and reading poker books/strategy guides etc, Ive learnt a lot of concepts, as Im sure we all have, that the average micro stake fish doesnt know anything about, and so these concepts dont work at 2nl/5nl, like they do at higher stakes(Im guessing) and it's really hard to go back to just playing ABC poker at ring, which is new to me anyway.
I'm so used to mtts, where, generally, I play tight in the early levels, wait for the fish to get knocked out, and then get into the serious poker where you can employ advanced concepts(i think they are advanced, anyway!) and more often than not they work.
Note to self: Dont get fancy at micro-cash, just play premium from EP and gradually open up to ATC from the button with tight players in the blinds!

FYP :)

Seriously stealing will improve your overall winrate dramatically. Be especially on the hunt for those loose passives in the blind who will call with everything preflop and then always fold to a cbet unimproved. They are like little goldmines.
 
KerouacsDog

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yeah WV, tried the stealing from late but with mixed results(havent got a HUD so no stats), I pretty much always c-bet but they come along for the ride.
I don't steal that much, so it's not like the fish have worked out Im stealing/c-betting with nothing, I hope, anyway, they just like calling when they've invested PF, I guess.
 
Lemlywinks

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I don't steal that much, so it's not like the fish have worked out Im stealing/c-betting with nothing.

I don't think the "regs" will be able to tell at our micro limits either :)
 
Mase31683

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I'm slacking, less than 1k hands per day so far :(

I've decided rakeback is my EV insurance, it always seems to be making up for whatever Sklansky owes me.

October.png
 
S93

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40K hands. ahead of pace.
Only play when i feel im in good mental shape. Meh
Buy and read a new poker book. Not yet.
Watch some training vids and post some hands. Not enough.
And obvs. hopefully profit. So far.


 
Dwilius

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Play tight and get more money in bankroll.
Improve my MTT play.
Win some money in MTT that will not be one of the last prizes right after the bubble.

Get to at least 5 final tables. And double the BR

This is the cash game thread* :), I'll leave Lemly's solid brag as I'm sure that was just a diversion he thinks of as an extra 25 NL roll ;) (or big step closer to 50NL).

I haven't been posting in this thread because I took a break from trying to move up in cash after a bad run. Just been messing around or playing other games...might start playing again soon.

*there's a sng thread, and usually an mtt one, if you'd like to start one.
 
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Lemlywinks

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This is the cash game thread* :), I'll leave Lemly's solid brag as I'm sure that was just a diversion he thinks of as an extra 25 NL roll ;) (or big step closer to 50NL).

I haven't been posting in this thread because I took a break from trying to move up in cash after a bad run. Just been messing around or playing other games...might start playing again soon.

*there's a sng thread, and usually an mtt one, if you'd like to start one.

:D :D
Yea couldn't help myself, caught me :eek:
 
JimmyBrizzy

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yeah WV, tried the stealing from late but with mixed results(havent got a HUD so no stats), I pretty much always c-bet but they come along for the ride.
I don't steal that much, so it's not like the fish have worked out Im stealing/c-betting with nothing, I hope, anyway, they just like calling when they've invested PF, I guess.

Just to add/point out, using a HUD makes these decisions so much easier. I assume you are playing more than one table. When the table pops up and you see two players in the blinds with high fsb/fbb ratios and/or high fold to flop bets or c-bets, a money symbol should be popping up over your head.
 
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I'm done with 25nl so I figured I would share my notes on the limit (PS). 50nl has started with some run bad (and a little of me playing scared money so I missed some value) but I still see enough bad play that I think I have an edge on a vast majority of the field. Anyways, onto the 25nl notes:

1. Some people float with nothing even out of position with the intention of betting the river when the turn goes check/check. Identify these people and double barrel them with air/very strong hands liberally as they are gold mines. Taking a bet/check/bet or bet/check/call line with marginal hands against these villains is also profitable as they are largely apt to bet the river with air or call the river with a weak pair.
2. Identify people who stack off with TPNK. These people are also gold mines.\
3. Stealing is still very very profitable.
4. Some people have a fixed preflop 3bet size regardless of your raise size. This encourages a smaller preflop raise size.
5. Never ever 4bet bluff unless you have substantial evidence that the villain is 3betting you light. A few 3bets in a row is more likely a rush of cards than light 3betting. There were several occasions where I thought people were 3betting me light but they never ever folded to a 4bet.
6. Do not bluff stations and unknowns. At 25nl, people still call with a surprising amount of garbage.
7. Unlike 10nl, there are a fair amount of squeeze opportunities. In general when squeezing, you should be more concerned with raiser, but at 25nl, I've noticed that the caller (who is generally a fish) calls the squeeze a surprisingly large number of the time so be aware when squeezing OOP. In general, it's better to have a hand with some equity when squeezing unless you are very confident you are going to get folds.
8. Unlike 10nl, there are some semi competent regs at 25nl. Therefore you must be a little more selective in targeting fish to extract money from. At 10nl, play was bad enough across the board that I rarely avoided anyone but at 25nl, I found myself not particularly wanting to be in pots OOP against certain villains.
 
GordonStr222

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Thanks for starting the thread!

My two goals for the month - plan the play of the hand through all streets before betting the flop; re-read The Psychology of Poker.

The psychology of poker is a great book... I think I'm going to read that book again myself.....
 
Juniorsdaddy

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Been doing OK at the .25/.50 7 Card Stud tables, but I tore it up in 3 sessions moving up to .50/1. Seems like a lot of short stacks and scared money. My bankroll is still under $100, so I am not confident enough to play only at .50/1, as I think variance could still affect me greatly. Just been playing solid starting hands and rolling with the pot odds.
 
Juniorsdaddy

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I'm not really sure what a good bankroll is for 7 Card Stud. Judging by the pots I've won at .50/1, my bankroll would take a hit if I went on a losing streak. If anyone has any suggestions on a good bankroll size, let me know.
 
slycbnew

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$100 = 50 BB's, not sure what the min recommendations are for limit, but I'm sure this is too few. I'd guess you'd want something closer to at least like 300 BB's as a min, but I don't play limit, so...
 
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$100 = 50 BB's, not sure what the min recommendations are for limit, but I'm sure this is too few. I'd guess you'd want something closer to at least like 300 BB's as a min, but I don't play limit, so...

In .50/1 FL, the BB is $1.

I'm not really sure what a good bankroll is for 7 Card Stud. Judging by the pots I've won at .50/1, my bankroll would take a hit if I went on a losing streak. If anyone has any suggestions on a good bankroll size, let me know.

300 BBs is considered standard for FL Holdem. With an extra street of BB action in Stud, I would think it should be more like 400 BBs.
 
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I've been stacked 3 times tonight--including my AA v AK preflop...he hit his straight...my total profit for rocktober is now .01...
 
JimmyBrizzy

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I'm done with 25nl so I figured I would share my notes on the limit (PS). 50nl has started with some run bad (and a little of me playing scared money so I missed some value) but I still see enough bad play that I think I have an edge on a vast majority of the field. Anyways, onto the 25nl notes:

1. Some people float with nothing even out of position with the intention of betting the river when the turn goes check/check. Identify these people and double barrel them with air/very strong hands liberally as they are gold mines. Taking a bet/check/bet or bet/check/call line with marginal hands against these villains is also profitable as they are largely apt to bet the river with air or call the river with a weak pair.
2. Identify people who stack off with TPNK. These people are also gold mines.\
3. Stealing is still very very profitable.
4. Some people have a fixed preflop 3bet size regardless of your raise size. This encourages a smaller preflop raise size.
5. Never ever 4bet bluff unless you have substantial evidence that the villain is 3betting you light. A few 3bets in a row is more likely a rush of cards than light 3betting. There were several occasions where I thought people were 3betting me light but they never ever folded to a 4bet.
6. Do not bluff stations and unknowns. At 25nl, people still call with a surprising amount of garbage.
7. Unlike 10nl, there are a fair amount of squeeze opportunities. In general when squeezing, you should be more concerned with raiser, but at 25nl, I've noticed that the caller (who is generally a fish) calls the squeeze a surprisingly large number of the time so be aware when squeezing OOP. In general, it's better to have a hand with some equity when squeezing unless you are very confident you are going to get folds.
8. Unlike 10nl, there are some semi competent regs at 25nl. Therefore you must be a little more selective in targeting fish to extract money from. At 10nl, play was bad enough across the board that I rarely avoided anyone but at 25nl, I found myself not particularly wanting to be in pots OOP against certain villains.

Nice. I especially like the advice on not 4bet bluffing, and the case for their 3bets more than likely being a rush of decent cards.
 
Juniorsdaddy

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In .50/1 FL, the BB is $1.

300 BBs is considered standard for FL Holdem. With an extra street of BB action in Stud, I would think it should be more like 400 BBs.

The initial ante is only .10, and the Bring-in bet (basically the lone blind bet) is .25, with .50 bets to 5th street. After 5th, the bets are raised to 1 dollar. There are some execptions, but that is the general rule. If you want to compare it to FL Holdem, I would compare it more to .25/.50. So, I would guesstimate that about $150-$200 would be acceptable according to your calculations. Correct?
 
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The initial ante is only .10, and the Bring-in bet (basically the lone blind bet) is .25, with .50 bets to 5th street. After 5th, the bets are raised to 1 dollar. There are some exceptions, but that is the general rule. If you want to compare it to FL Holdem, I would compare it more to .25/.50. So, I would guesstimate that about $150-$200 would be acceptable according to your calculations. Correct?

Disregard what I previously said because the blind and betting structure for Stud was more different as compared to FL Holdem than I had previously thought.

That said, having antes makes you need even more because the swings will be larger. A quick online search shows a consensus minimum of around 300BB even at the micros for FL Stud variants (or $300 at .50/1 Stud). I'm sure you can beat .50/1 Stud but there is a fairly wide consensus that the downswings can be brutal even for people who handily beat the game. In FLHE, I went through a very rough stretch despite being a 2BB/100 winner over a large sample so I have some idea of what brutal stretches limit games can bring.
 
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