Is it ever right to fold AA preflop? :)

[freestocks]

Limit poker is different. He was locking in profit.

 

[Talden]

When I first started reading this thread I said , no way in hell I'm folding AA pre. But after I read Philthy's post it made good sense. Had to take a look at the bigger picture. But in most other scenarios it's a snap call. ...Tal

 

[NCDaddy]

I suppose, given the format, that it's an acceptable strategy. However, even in this format, I'd have raised.

 

[starting_at_the_bottom]

I would fold aces the third time i get them. Aces win about two thirds of the time. leaving a third where you get caught with them. The guy on television played it correct and avoided a serious loss.

Please say you are trolling.

 

[pauloprcds]

I never did it, but I could understand if someone does it in some situations .
Like, if you are playing on the bubble of the wsop, like someone said there, like, if you're on the bubble, you could just let it go, or if you're playing a satellite tournament, and is almost over, you have a good stack, and a bunch of people is hanging in there with a small stack, in this situations, I guess you essentially make more money folding aces, but thats just my opinion.

 

[blef mashine]

Amazing, how a move to drop the AA , as a man that is a psychic.

 

[Frontiere]

I never fold preflop , turn and river are different story

 

[eberetta1]

I have folded AA many a time. It just makes sense. I have gone in hundreds of times when folding would have put me in the money, and was instead rewarded with a kick to the gut.
Just the other day I won $71, when a guy on another table would have moneyed because I was forced to play. He had AA. If he folds his AA, he monies. Instead he goes all in with his remaining chips, other guy calls with K10. The flop brings up 10 10 rag.

 

[EXTREMUM]

I've folded QQ pre-flop a few times, but only in a multi-way pots, deep-stacked with 2/3 or more of my stack to be called. Typically, halfway into the tourney. Never KK or AA.

 

[Roman Tsygankov]

Not in this situation. It was his fault to fold such a great hand.
But in some situations you should fold AA and KK.(for example 4 places left in sunday million and two(or more) players with approximately equal chips go all in - it is better to fold.

 

[Ghowl87]

Against 3+ players all in I may fold the aces (even though I got them beat for pre-flop)
But in any other situation I raise or call (if want to trap)

 

[dudu10grande]

I do not off AA pre flop ever, after all is the best hand in the game, there's no reason to see ghosts where it has not.

 

[jerohit]

going preflop all in is a coinflip.. even 2 7 can beat them.. play them aggresdive if you know something about your opponent and his range then you can easely made a dicession..

 

[ph_il]

going preflop all in is a coinflip.. even 2 7 can beat them.. play them aggresdive if you know something about your opponent and his range then you can easely made a dicession..

AA is no where near a coin flip vs 27. A coin flip deals with 50/50 situations, like flipping a coin. There's 50% chance of it landed on either heads or tails.

AA is ~85% vs 27 ~15%.

 

[Sadalmelik]

You play timed event tournament, it is last minute, you re happy with what you already achived, because you tripled your depleted bankroll, with this hail marry shot, and u got AA as your last hand..... you know that fate will betray you, so yes, you simply fold them, knowing that other guy with 2Qo will again knock you with his 3rd royal flash that night

 

[dejan85]

that is not so smart question,but in one situation I could fold AA pre flop if I were in final table and 5 or more players goes all in than I fold instantly

 

[Ivab]

The player had a game plan. It should be remembered that he opposed the two opponents are. And hence the AA reset was not some sort of supernatural step. I dropped the AA rarely. But I did it more than once. If you want to achieve a certain goal, there is nothing strange in the fact that refuse risk.

 

[Rumme1]

AA is no where near a coin flip vs 27. A coin flip deals with 50/50 situations, like flipping a coin. There's 50% chance of it landed on either heads or tails.

AA is ~85% vs 27 ~15%.

Lets be honest...In NL hold em...ALL hands are coin flip if you go all in preflop. Once all the chips go all in preflop...all the skill has now been taken out of the game on the flop, turn and river....there is no more betting startegy...no more bluffing strategy , etc. It is now all LUCK .

In other words, any hand preflop, can end up the winner on the river.

The term coin flip , is usually regarded as meaning a 50-50 hand , but the reality is, poker is not like a heads or tails coin and if you play :

AK VS JJ

1000 times , I guarantee it wont work out to each hand winning exactly
50 % of the time...especially if you do this experiment on 1000 different days, a 1000 times each day.

27 vs AA...is still a coin flip hand, all in preflop ...its just that the AA is expected to win much more then the 27...BUT...because of the luck factor, variance in NL hold em poker , there is no guarantee that is gonna happen repeatedly .

 

[detroitjunkie]

do not confuse 'coin flip' with 'gamble'. Yes it is always a gamble to be AI before the river unless you have unbeatable nuts, but this in no way should ever stop you from being AI with AA. The only reason, and I mean the only reason, to fold AA preflop is in a satellite situation (or some goofy points league) PERIOD. If you are worried about pay increases you are in the wrong game (unless you owe a loan shark thats going to kill you if you dont bump up the ladder).

It takes 6 more players to be against you for the field to be favored in any way

ALWAYS take the shot - ALWAYS!

 

[ph_il]

Lets be honest...In NL hold em...ALL hands are coin flip if you go all in preflop. Once all the chips go all in preflop...all the skill has now been taken out of the game on the flop, turn and river....there is no more betting startegy...no more bluffing strategy , etc. It is now all LUCK .

In other words, any hand preflop, can end up the winner on the river.
...Well, if you're thinking in terms of one hand wins/one hand loses, then yes, each hand has a 50/50 chance of either of those results. That's a given in all-in situations and with the exception of a chopped pot, a hand can only win or lose.

However, in poker, we're more interested in getting our money in with hands that have more equity preflop. Equity is simply the chance something has at winning. If we take a coin, each side has 50% equity because it can only land on one of two sides.

A poker hand with more preflop equity will win more in the long run. Simple as that. AA has more equity over JJ, so it will win a lot more money over a decent sample size.

The term coin flip , is usually regarded as meaning a 50-50 hand , but the reality is, poker is not like a heads or tails coin and if you play:
...Actually, like a coin, the term 50/50 or coinflip is referring to each hand's preflop equity, or chance they have at winning by the river.

So, your classic AKs vs QQ is a coinflip because both hands have a ~50% chance of winning by the river. QQ does have a slight edge, but I'd say any 2 hands falling that fall somewhere between 45%-55% in equity is a coinflip.

AK VS JJ

1000 times , I guarantee it wont work out to each hand winning exactly 50 % of the time...especially if you do this experiment on 1000 different days, a 1000 times each day.
...Well, no, it probably won't land at exactly 50/50, but over a large sample size, it'll be pretty close. In a perfect world where everything is exact, JJ would have slight advantage as far as wins and profits go since it does have a slight equity advantage. However, since poker isn't exact and w/ a large enough sample size, their results would end up pretty equal. Maybe not exactly 50/50, but 48/52 in favor of JJ.

27 vs AA...is still a coin flip hand, all in preflop ...its just that the AA is expected to win much more then the 27...BUT...because of the luck factor, variance in NL hold em poker , there is no guarantee that is gonna happen repeatedly.
...27 vs AA isn't a coinflip because AA has more equity. Also, even though variance is a thing in poker, it balances out over large sample sizes.

To give an example, lets say we agree to flip a coin 4x. If it lands on heads, I pay you $100 and if it lands on tails, you pay me $50. Sounds like a sweet deal, right? Now lets say it lands on tails 4x in a row and I pocket $200. Well, if it's 50/50, you would expect the coin to land 2x on head, 2x on tails, right? What happened?

Variance happened. Just because something is expected to happen doesn't mean it'll happen exactly. Flip a coin 10x and see it lands 5x heads/5x tails. It's possible, but it's also not uncommon for it land a bit off at 3x heads/7x tails or such. However, the more times you flip the coin, the better chance of heads vs tails becoming equal.

So, applying this to poker. Yes, AA will lose to 27 about 20% of the time. In fact, as long as hand has some equity, it can win. However, in the 27 vs AA situation, over a large sample size, AA will win more often and, thus, be more profitable. If we don't worry about results and focus more on decisions, we can see that getting our money with AA vs 27 will always be profitable in the long run.

above.

 

[Rumme1]

do not confuse 'coin flip' with 'gamble'. Yes it is always a gamble to be AI before the river unless you have unbeatable nuts, but this in no way should ever stop you from being AI with AA. The only reason, and I mean the only reason, to fold AA preflop is in a satellite situation (or some goofy points league) PERIOD. If you are worried about pay increases you are in the wrong game (unless you owe a loan shark thats going to kill you if you dont bump up the ladder).

It takes 6 more players to be against you for the field to be favored in any way

ALWAYS take the shot - ALWAYS!

I would never fold AA pre, in a cash game .

Lets also remember that coin flips are considered to turnout out 50/50 over the longterm, when flipping a coin, but even that is a innaccurate claim and when it comes to hold em , there is absoloutley no guarantees that coinlfip 50-50 hands { 10-10 VS JQ suited } will always turnout to be 50-50 win loss ratio, over months/ years of play.

Randomness, variance and the nature of the all in pre flop bet , assure that each poker player, will experience different results with hands we consider to be 50-50 hands. I am 100% sure, that my preflop all in hands, that are called 50-50 hands...end up being around 25-75 hands..where I lose 75% of the time over the long term. This type of bad luck with coin flips , assures that NL hold em, will always be a deep grind game for me because the majority of huge all in pots with coin flip hands preflop, do not average out for me. In fact, many of the huge pots involved with NL hold em, will be all in preflop coin flip hands . If you have above average luck with coin flip hands preflop, then you are more likely to win those huge preflop pots , which makes it easier to be a big winner in the game over the longterm,

I do beleive in a tournament setting, there are situations that warrant a possible fold of AA, preflop. For example :

You are at final table with 6 players : You are 5th in chips and you have noticed that the trend on the flops have been with suited middle cards / heavy draw hands OR PAIRS LIKE Q-J-J- OR K-Q-Q OR - 7-9-10 SUITED -

A hand is dealt where you get AA , you raise 4x blinds { you have around 35 big blinds left} , you get reraised all in by the chip leader, and he gets called by the -3rd- AND 4th place chip leaders. This situation is one where I would consider a fold of AA , knowing that I only raised 4x blinds , and I can fold, have a decent chance of moving up a million dollars in payout, just by choosing to not risk all my chips in a 4 way gamble pot. In other words, you can easily bustout on AA in this scenario , with a bad beat and finish in 6th place for $500,000 ...or chose to NOT gamble, fold the hand, and possibly move up to a payout of 1.2 million dollars, just by letting 3 other players at the table gamble with a all in preflop.

Once again, this is a rare situation, and it depends on taking note of what the flops have been in the last few hours of play , and if flush/straight draws have been hitting along with paying attention to price payouts.

All thise things have to make it " reasonable' in considering a AA fold preflop.

 

[Kaosrp]

It's really dangerous to play against 3 players. But I don't know, I'd probably raise pre-flop and see what happens. This guy must have a third eye, or a crystal ball inside his head, insane. Like the narrator said, if this was a movie I'd said that is unrealistic.

 

[Slav4obaby]

just check the link guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HCHPN1sGfU

 

[shomy21]

Pre flop never...especially in this situation!

 

[taban13]

Never.