This sounds logical, but I don't know for sure. Hardly ever will I have more than 20 outs

(or maybe I do and just don't count them

)

Anything with that many outs makes me somewhat skeptical about the accuracy of our perceived ranges or the thread of reverse odds. Maybe your addition to the Rule of 2 and 4 helps address this, but I'm by no means a math wizard with these things as I simply estimate and play off of intuition more anyway. Post-game I might review the hand and then dive into math-specifics, but mid-hand, I'm seldom calculating more than just basics like outs and pot odds estimates.

Thanks for the reply.

Your right you almost never have 20 out. But as stated in the OP this works if you have more then 8 outs and you ore your opponent is all-in.

9 outs =35%, but 9x4= 36 so 9x4-1= 35

10 outs = 38.4% 10x4= 40 so 10x4-2= 38

11 outs = 41.7% 11x4= 44 so 11x4-3= 41

12 outs = 45% 12x4= 48 so 12x4-4= 44

13 outs = 48.1% 13x4= 52 so 13x4-5= 47

14 outs = 51.2% 14x4= 56 so 14x4-6= 50

And so on, so your answer is match closer to the real % you have.

The reason I used 20 as a example is that the more outs above 8 you get the higher % is that you are off.

It may seem strange, but when I start mathematically calculating the coefficients, I lose very quickly. In my opinion, one should not blindly believe mathematics. But you should pay attention to the combination of different factors at different times of the game. This is the reaction of the opponents, their style of play, take into account the experience of past hands with them. And compare it with your tactics and strategies. Pure psychology.

Thanks for the reply.

I fully agree with not blindly flowing you

mathematics.
80% is the probablity to hit your outs (actually 85,6%), but in calculators is shown other percentage because the interactivity between your outs and the outs of villain. The next street can change all percentages, all in all, in the flop we have 45 cards left in the deck with showdown and 47 withou it, if you have 20 outs, your opponent have 25. Some times some of their outs can let him nuts and your outs could be dominated.

Thanks for the reply.

I understand that the next street will change your %.

But you only use the 4x part on the flop when your all-in or you opponent is all-in on the flop, so there are no more calculation after that.

This is a well known adjustment to the rule of 2 and 4. I'd be surprised if most sites that mention it don't include the adjustment, though a quick google search shows that many don't,

Here is one that does though,

https://www.consciouspoker.com/blog/how-to-calculate-poker-pot-odds/

Thanks for the reply.

Till your post I personally never saw a site that has this added. Thanks for sharing it.

Its the reason I made this post, as it is also not in the course.

This is a well known rule, but often overlooked in favour of simplicity. Poker is not a simple game and trying to make it so can often be more detrimental than never learning the concept in the first place.

Thanks for the reply.

Its the reason I made this post, as it is also not in the course.