rancidcarp
Rock Star
Silver Level
Limping in a bounty
I just got cursed out for limping with AA in a bounty tourney. lol had to laugh at that because it did exactly what I wanted it to do. get me 2 bounty's with one swoop. trapping and limping and check raising in a bounty doesnt seem new to me. it seems good sense. which is what i told the guy that called me every name in the book lol. hence the word bounty. i play them with that word in mind.
I just got cursed out for limping with AA in a bounty tourney. lol had to laugh at that because it did exactly what I wanted it to do. get me 2 bounty's with one swoop. trapping and limping and check raising in a bounty doesnt seem new to me. it seems good sense. which is what i told the guy that called me every name in the book lol. hence the word bounty. i play them with that word in mind.
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whoami
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I guess that limping with AA often works in normal tournaments as well, not just in bounty tournaments. I however usually raise with AA as with any other hand I decide to play with. Otherwise it might look suspicious if I suddenly limped after folding or raising all the previous hands.
... but if there is someone who I know to raise almost every hand (I see them often in freerolls) then I might decide to limp with AA because if I raised I might scare them away.
I wouldn't limp with KK because it is very likely that someone will call with Ax and it's quite likely that they hit their ace. With AA there is no such problem as the opponent would have to hit much better.
... but if there is someone who I know to raise almost every hand (I see them often in freerolls) then I might decide to limp with AA because if I raised I might scare them away.
I wouldn't limp with KK because it is very likely that someone will call with Ax and it's quite likely that they hit their ace. With AA there is no such problem as the opponent would have to hit much better.
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polda
Enthusiast
Silver Level
cool vid from nanonoko on how to aproach KO tournament...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTIRUeR5g5g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTIRUeR5g5g
Shumkoolie
Legend
Silver Level
I've always been of the mindset that if somebody is cursing you out for a play you made on them, then more often than not, you made a good/resourceful play against them. They just couldn't find a fold against you.
The only thing I would have done differently thsn you is I wouldn't engage them in any chat. I would just quietly take their chips and go on to the next hand. Why educate them????? It's not as if they are going to give you any constructive tips or help.
That said, was this a Sit&Go? If so, how did you do? Win I hope.
The only thing I would have done differently thsn you is I wouldn't engage them in any chat. I would just quietly take their chips and go on to the next hand. Why educate them????? It's not as if they are going to give you any constructive tips or help.
That said, was this a Sit&Go? If so, how did you do? Win I hope.
bracadelija
Legend
Silver Level
I've always been of the mindset that if somebody is cursing you out for a play you made on them, then more often than not, you made a good/resourceful play against them. They just couldn't find a fold against you.
The only thing I would have done differently thsn you is I wouldn't engage them in any chat. I would just quietly take their chips and go on to the next hand. Why educate them????? It's not as if they are going to give you any constructive tips or help.
That said, was this a Sit&Go? If so, how did you do? Win I hope.
Smart in these situations is just laugh and ignore, and of course move on.
Rawdeal1955
Rock Star
Bronze Level
Limping AA or KK from early position
I find that limping early or late in any tournament brings more callers to the hand. Lately in lower buy ins you will get weak callers no matter how you play it. I play play AA KK and QQ strong and if I lose to a weaker hand I know I put my chips good and lost to the way the cards fell.
I find that limping early or late in any tournament brings more callers to the hand. Lately in lower buy ins you will get weak callers no matter how you play it. I play play AA KK and QQ strong and if I lose to a weaker hand I know I put my chips good and lost to the way the cards fell.
joker131
Visionary
Silver Level
table poistion dynamics all come into consideration early in mtt with AA.. KK.
early position u dont want to be up against 2 or 3 callers so big raise early.
midd position look to stack sizes and how big the blinds are worth taking with big raise or shove
late position always small raise at start of torny with small blinds. but if the blinds are big get the stack in and hope for a call from the blinds
early position u dont want to be up against 2 or 3 callers so big raise early.
midd position look to stack sizes and how big the blinds are worth taking with big raise or shove
late position always small raise at start of torny with small blinds. but if the blinds are big get the stack in and hope for a call from the blinds
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Numoran
Rising Star
Bronze Level
If you're in early position you shouldn't be afraid to raise with premium hands. Worst case situation is everyone folds to you and you win the blinds. By limping in you lose a lot of information you could have received by opening with a min raise or 3x BB. Limping early could tip a few players off that you're sitting on a big hand if its not part of your normal play.
rancidcarp
Rock Star
Silver Level
i made ft took 5th and 7 bountys did well...ty
STL FAN
Rock Star
Silver Level
Limping AA/KK in early position is the last action from a table that is set up for this dynamic to get the desired reaction with an 80% probability of someone re-raising behind the limp. Without a plan and laying action in previous hands lets this play have the desired result of getting someone to overplay a hand they would have normally folded to you under different circumstances of raising pre-flop.
I try and set up the table in prior situations in early position either by limp folding pre-flop or on the flop, raise in early position and fold to action behind pre-flop or fold on the flop when action starts. Using any two cards hopefully they are hands you would not normally play and easily fold to action to set up FUD. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt; this will allow you to see who is going to be aggressive to your “fish” appearance. You are inviting action to set up an illusion of action but you are just folding garbage hands you normally would not play.
Your opponents do not know what you are doing and what cards you are doing this with. They just see your play as opportunity and this is polarized in their mind and thinking about your play. Remember your opponent has a better perception of your image than you do. When you get dealt AA/KK now in any position but hopefully it happens in early position now you can induce a wide open range of three betting light by an opponent who feels entitled to your chips. However, since your “fish” image does not matter which position you are in and will get action with your big hands no matter how you play them; you just might have to chum the waters to recondition the table to your play. But if you do not feel comfortable with this approach then I would go with the advice by the other players in this thread. Hope your holiday goes well and glad to have met you.
I try and set up the table in prior situations in early position either by limp folding pre-flop or on the flop, raise in early position and fold to action behind pre-flop or fold on the flop when action starts. Using any two cards hopefully they are hands you would not normally play and easily fold to action to set up FUD. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt; this will allow you to see who is going to be aggressive to your “fish” appearance. You are inviting action to set up an illusion of action but you are just folding garbage hands you normally would not play.
Your opponents do not know what you are doing and what cards you are doing this with. They just see your play as opportunity and this is polarized in their mind and thinking about your play. Remember your opponent has a better perception of your image than you do. When you get dealt AA/KK now in any position but hopefully it happens in early position now you can induce a wide open range of three betting light by an opponent who feels entitled to your chips. However, since your “fish” image does not matter which position you are in and will get action with your big hands no matter how you play them; you just might have to chum the waters to recondition the table to your play. But if you do not feel comfortable with this approach then I would go with the advice by the other players in this thread. Hope your holiday goes well and glad to have met you.
rancidcarp
Rock Star
Silver Level
nice video. that guy really thinks it out.
tbdbitl
Legend
Silver Level
I can tell you I have passed my chips off to an early limper when I was SS in late pos. I've also stacked off the early limper from the blinds post flop too.
I can't ever see doing this. But, if I ever did, you can be certain that if it's limped to the flop, I'm playing them like 88 for the rest of the hand.
I can't ever see doing this. But, if I ever did, you can be certain that if it's limped to the flop, I'm playing them like 88 for the rest of the hand.
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onekaydeep
Rising Star
Silver Level
Always raise. ALWAYS.
If someone else has a hand, then maybe they 3 bet, giving you a exponent to the blinds of 3°, assuming you 4-bet.
Limp re-raising looks too strong an obvious and the opponent might fold to your 3 bet or flat, closing an option of the 3rd bet exponent in the action of a 4 bet.
For instance, you raise (+1°) opponent 3 bets (+2) you 4 bet (+3°) of the blind.
Limping gains no added value to begin with, so we start at (+0°), opponent raises, you reprise (+2°), he\she folds or flats.
If someone else has a hand, then maybe they 3 bet, giving you a exponent to the blinds of 3°, assuming you 4-bet.
Limp re-raising looks too strong an obvious and the opponent might fold to your 3 bet or flat, closing an option of the 3rd bet exponent in the action of a 4 bet.
For instance, you raise (+1°) opponent 3 bets (+2) you 4 bet (+3°) of the blind.
Limping gains no added value to begin with, so we start at (+0°), opponent raises, you reprise (+2°), he\she folds or flats.
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BullWink
Rock Star
Silver Level
Depends on the game
I agree with most on the thread who say to NEVER limp with AA or KK when you are first to act (or must act early). Some exceptions to this are:
In the first hour in a very loose game (i.e. rebuy tourneys), where lots of people bet on poor starting hands. If you limp and then go all in if someone raises (and someone usually does), then you usually get a couple of callers.
Late in the tournament where blinds get important. It is usually possible to pick up a few blinds by going all in after someone raises.
I agree with most on the thread who say to NEVER limp with AA or KK when you are first to act (or must act early). Some exceptions to this are:
In the first hour in a very loose game (i.e. rebuy tourneys), where lots of people bet on poor starting hands. If you limp and then go all in if someone raises (and someone usually does), then you usually get a couple of callers.
Late in the tournament where blinds get important. It is usually possible to pick up a few blinds by going all in after someone raises.
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BullWink
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yes, odds go down, BUT pot goes up.
Yes, I agree with your odds, but what you dont take into account, is the pot will be much bigger (i.e 3 people go all in instead of 2). The odds would be the same 72% of winning two hands in two separate deals against one player, which would give you the same amount of won chips (i.e. if the second player each had the same amount of chips they went all in with). You must also consider that how often do you get AA or KK in a tourney and why not play them to get the biggest payout.
I heard someone quote these odds and say that they would not go all in if 5 people are ahead of you in the pot and have gone all-in. Sure you only have a 49% chance of winning, BUT compare this to the 10% chance that the other 5 players have of winning. Lots of people will go all-in on a coin flip, but I think you have great value when you can get 5 times your bet on a coin flip.
IMHO, if you are going to quote odds, then you should really look at Return on Investment analysis as well.
Yes, I agree with your odds, but what you dont take into account, is the pot will be much bigger (i.e 3 people go all in instead of 2). The odds would be the same 72% of winning two hands in two separate deals against one player, which would give you the same amount of won chips (i.e. if the second player each had the same amount of chips they went all in with). You must also consider that how often do you get AA or KK in a tourney and why not play them to get the biggest payout.
I heard someone quote these odds and say that they would not go all in if 5 people are ahead of you in the pot and have gone all-in. Sure you only have a 49% chance of winning, BUT compare this to the 10% chance that the other 5 players have of winning. Lots of people will go all-in on a coin flip, but I think you have great value when you can get 5 times your bet on a coin flip.
IMHO, if you are going to quote odds, then you should really look at Return on Investment analysis as well.
S
Scorpio_x_9
Rising Star
Bronze Level
In my experience limping AA/KK rarely pays off because your opponents are not going to raise you if they don't hit the flop so you are going to have to raise and that will just bring folds not chips. Here I'd just follow the if strong, raise rule.
Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
That's exactly right. Your equity as a percentage of the pot goes down but your actual value increases accordingly. The only problem is the hand becomes much more difficult to play. But if you're good enough to recognize when and how to avoid sticky situations then having a lot of callers will actually be more profitable than seeing the flop heads up. Of course you'll have to fold more often but you're wins should make up for the difference.
TheGodson
Rock Star
Silver Level
Played a game last night with my family. My nephew was raising a lot of hands preflop at the time. Blinds were $25 and $10 with 30ish to 40ish BBs I think. I limped in UTG with QQ. My nephew upped it to $50 and everyone (6 people) called. I then raised 3 blacks making it $300. My nephew called and my brother in-law called as well making it $1100.
The flop came K93 rainbow I believe. I bet half my chips which was like $200 something. Both called. Shoving might have scared my nephew into folding, because that is the way he thinks.
Turn was like a 7 or something and I pushed the rest of my stack in. My brother in-law called and lost with JJ.
I feel confident I played optimally by limping instead of betting. Had I bet, it may have got most to fold except my brother in-law who calls and maybe a few others. Then I would have proceeded to win a smaller or medium sized pot. There is the chance he raises pre anyway, but I get a lot of dead money by limping. The way I played QQ here would have had the same result had I had AA or KK.
My ten year old Nephew ended up winning the tournament between all 6 of us. It was one of the most fun games I've played with my family in awhile.
The flop came K93 rainbow I believe. I bet half my chips which was like $200 something. Both called. Shoving might have scared my nephew into folding, because that is the way he thinks.
Turn was like a 7 or something and I pushed the rest of my stack in. My brother in-law called and lost with JJ.
I feel confident I played optimally by limping instead of betting. Had I bet, it may have got most to fold except my brother in-law who calls and maybe a few others. Then I would have proceeded to win a smaller or medium sized pot. There is the chance he raises pre anyway, but I get a lot of dead money by limping. The way I played QQ here would have had the same result had I had AA or KK.
My ten year old Nephew ended up winning the tournament between all 6 of us. It was one of the most fun games I've played with my family in awhile.