PapaC
Legend
Silver Level
It may take more skill playing freerolls and getting into the money maybe 30% of the time and that's high. You really have a fight on your hands for at least the first hour. You really have to dodge a lot of bullets. I'm going to start playing them more on FF because my BR is down some, so BRM is in effect right now. One good thing about FF freerolls, you can rebuy and add on for $.50. That's even for the $500 freeroll Friday nights. But I think if you can win freerolls a lot you can win anything. Well GL to you
M
miley17
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I think the freerolls are not obective enough. There arer always at least 30% sitouts. Most of the players go all-in almost every hand.. and just...man doesn;t take the game seriously. If u have entered in the paid places, good for u, u have skills, but its not an indicator that u r good enough to earn money on real games. There are idfferents tactics, and when man plays on real money..like cash games or not free tourneys...its different
IntenseHeat
Legend
Bronze Level
I'm like yeeeeahhhhh, mmmmmm but nnnooooo.
So I'm sitting there trying to think of a way to explain it. It's like I agree. But then again... I don't so much disagree, as maybe I'm looking at it from another angle.
Of course freerolls are different from real money tourneys. But everything is different from everything. Tournaments are different from cash games. The nosebleeds are different from the micros. A $1000 GTD tourney is going to be different from a $100,000 GTD. Even the sites are different. Freerolls on one site might be completely different from freerolls on another site. And that's when it hit me. I don't really play very many freerolls anymore. So when I think of freerolls, I think of the ones I used to play back when we had different site options here in the US.
I have played freerolls on some of the new "US friendly" sites, and they are much different from the ones that I used to play. These sites have freerolls starting just about every hour, which sounds great at first, until you see the format. With small starting stacks, short levels, and aggressive blind schedules, they seem to have the perfect recipe for beginning to end shove-athons. Like I said, I've played in some of these, cashed in some, and even won one. I consider myself to be a pretty good poker player. But even in winning one of these freerolls, I didn't feel like it was my skill that carried me to victory. If these are the types of tournaments you think of when you consider freerolls, then no, I wouldn't consider these to be a test of poker skill. In fact, some of these sites might as well write a lottery algorithm that they could run hourly to randomly award prizes to a certain number of players based on the number of entrants and not even bother with the cards.
Okay, maybe it's not quite that bad. But I have played on some of these new sites, was not impressed with the level of play on them, didn't care for them and therefore don't play on them very much at all. So if these are the freerolls that you're thinking of, I can't disagree with anyone who says that they are not an indicator of success or skill. Not only that, but these games aren't going to help you learn or improve. In fact they may do more to hurt your game by instilling bad habits and encouraging a gambling mentality. So if you are inclined to make a deposit, I would just go ahead and do it and not bother with these freerolls. But not all freerolls are like these.
I do feel like success in freerolls can be an indicator of skill. Of course my perspective is not based on these donk-a-rific freerolls on these new sites. Like I said, it's been a while since I really played freerolls with any kind of regularity. So when I think of freerolls, I immediately think of the ones I used play in prior to Black Friday, on UB/AP in particular. These tournaments used to average about 3500 players and sometimes up to 4500 on weekends. In a way they made me think of the Main Event where you can be sitting next to a circus clown on your left, an Elvis impersonator on your right, while Phil Ivey sits across from you. That is to say that you could face some extremely good players and incredibly awful players. Even the very best of players would have to get lucky somewhere along the way to make it through a field that large. But the deeper you went, the higher the level of play got. Just like the wsop, a skillful player may have to get lucky here and there, but I couldn't see a lucky player making it through that many players without some skill. That is until someone mentions the name Jesse James Sylvia and my whole argument falls apart.
L
lauraPOKER
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Freerolls may seem a Bingo game, but I get a lot of practice
Yes, most players go all in and that´s not a good lesson.. but it is certainly a ghood training for dealing with the bullies....
Yes, most players go all in and that´s not a good lesson.. but it is certainly a ghood training for dealing with the bullies....
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beger80
Rock Star
Silver Level
Freeroll tournaments are much different than many regular cash buy in tournaments... at least in the early stages. making a deep run in these should indicate some skill level all the while you should expect a higher chance of negative variance. I take these freeroll tourneys as a test of my tilt control and feel hand reading may actually be aided in these also these can help you figure the best way to play against the most laggy, spewy, and in rare cases tight passive or Taggy players. The later stages of freerolls play relatively close to real poker with most luckboxes coming back down to earth before the late stages. I have though found I need a night between playing the freerolls and playing reg games, as even when I try to stay on my regular game I will sometimes find my self raising or calling with marginal or worse hands and saying to myself "this is a real money fold but freeroll call, so I need to separate them mentally.
A
Akwind
Rock Star
Silver Level
FREEROLL - it is like training playground,
but you will not get good skill there. only get some $ for normal MTT
most of the players in freerolls don't think about ranges/push fold etc
they look at their cards and push... or play fit or fold... no words about pot odds..." i got a draw - i will call till allin...@"
so
freeroll is just a kick strter for you - to go for a real money MTT.
i guess freeroll skills are ok in early stages of MTT, but in late stage you need to know a lot about pushfold, NASH, pressure on a table etc.
good luck
I am grinding freerols as well as i lost my bank roll. and made myself a chalenge to start from nothing. I got 10th place in FiestaFreebuuys (freeroll at Fulltilt) and got 16$ for it. and i made it to 100$ playing jackpot sitgo (hit 20x at 2.5$) but... bad bankroll managment - and i lost it all LOL
spins and jackpot sitgos ---rrrrrrgh
but you will not get good skill there. only get some $ for normal MTT
most of the players in freerolls don't think about ranges/push fold etc
they look at their cards and push... or play fit or fold... no words about pot odds..." i got a draw - i will call till allin...@"
so
freeroll is just a kick strter for you - to go for a real money MTT.
i guess freeroll skills are ok in early stages of MTT, but in late stage you need to know a lot about pushfold, NASH, pressure on a table etc.
good luck
I am grinding freerols as well as i lost my bank roll. and made myself a chalenge to start from nothing. I got 10th place in FiestaFreebuuys (freeroll at Fulltilt) and got 16$ for it. and i made it to 100$ playing jackpot sitgo (hit 20x at 2.5$) but... bad bankroll managment - and i lost it all LOL
spins and jackpot sitgos ---rrrrrrgh
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Personally I would think that if you were mildly successful online 5yrs. ago (& successful 'live'), then you would know the answer to the question you've posted here (re - can I judge my skill/success with a high finish in a freeroll).
Anyone who's played even a modest bit of volume would know the answer... ANYONE can win a freeroll or tournament. It is commonplace to see a complete noob going deep in a huge field tournament & final-tabling it. Obviously the higher the ratio of good players vs. bad, then the harder it is to place high in it (final-tabling a 30,000 player Sunday Storm $11 buyin would not suggest that this player is a great player.... even though there will likely be 5 or 10,000 decent players in it, whereas final-tabling the Sunday $500 (that has less than 1/10th the number of entrants vs. The Storm) would be a GREAT accomplishment & could easily be considered a good judge of one's skill level (even though it still is only ONE tournament & it's still possible to luckbox it... just not as likely).
When you say you were mildly successful online in the past, how much did you actually play online & what do you consider to be 'mildly successful'?
I consider myself as basically sucking even though I feel I know a fair bit about the game.... I'm still by no means mildly successful (more like just barely successful), but I wouldn't judge my level of play off any ONE tournament (unless it was a field fillllllled with sharks.. and even then there'd be no doubt (in my mind) that I got VERY LUCKY.
Even if I'd played say 200 tournaments online with an avg. buyin of $10 and had an ROI of +75%, this is STILL not an indicator that I have skills.
Now if I'd put in 100 sessions of cash tables & was showing a profit, I'd consider this a far better indicator.
Anyone who's played even a modest bit of volume would know the answer... ANYONE can win a freeroll or tournament. It is commonplace to see a complete noob going deep in a huge field tournament & final-tabling it. Obviously the higher the ratio of good players vs. bad, then the harder it is to place high in it (final-tabling a 30,000 player Sunday Storm $11 buyin would not suggest that this player is a great player.... even though there will likely be 5 or 10,000 decent players in it, whereas final-tabling the Sunday $500 (that has less than 1/10th the number of entrants vs. The Storm) would be a GREAT accomplishment & could easily be considered a good judge of one's skill level (even though it still is only ONE tournament & it's still possible to luckbox it... just not as likely).
When you say you were mildly successful online in the past, how much did you actually play online & what do you consider to be 'mildly successful'?
I consider myself as basically sucking even though I feel I know a fair bit about the game.... I'm still by no means mildly successful (more like just barely successful), but I wouldn't judge my level of play off any ONE tournament (unless it was a field fillllllled with sharks.. and even then there'd be no doubt (in my mind) that I got VERY LUCKY.
Even if I'd played say 200 tournaments online with an avg. buyin of $10 and had an ROI of +75%, this is STILL not an indicator that I have skills.
Now if I'd put in 100 sessions of cash tables & was showing a profit, I'd consider this a far better indicator.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
i've won an entry into a WSOP event few years ago by a freeroll, so some freerolls means succes in poker sometimes
I too won an entry to WSOP event in a freeroll (along with 7days accomodation, travel, expenses, etc.). This was a success but the win didn't indicate I'm a successful player. (the freeroll had a large field ~4,000 entrants... but it was an automated 'allin' freeroll, lol)
bprpm
Rock Star
Silver Level
Lowe buy ins represent more bad players so freerolls have the worst player, but if u survive normally that means u are a good player.. but remember cash games it's different of torunaments..
The first major difference between cash games and tournaments is that in tournaments you can only lose the amount of your buy-in. In a cash game, you can lose your entire stack. It's a lot easier to be fearless when all you have at risk is your $50 tournament buy-in as opposed to the $1,000 you bring to the cash game. In a tournament, the chips have no value other than as a means to determine where you place. This brings us to the next big difference. In tournaments, you get instant feedback as to your results. You know by the end of the tournament if you made it to the money and how far you advanced. Cash games are measured over the long haul. Success or failure should not be measured in one session or even a few sessions. If you are looking for instant gratification, cash games are not for you....
Some people prefer the challenge of playing cash games, and others prefer the buzz of playing in poker tournaments. It really comes down to personal preference, so you should decide for yourself if you prefer cash games or poker tournaments.
Personally i like tournament, because if we win i win a lot of money and the pleasure of winning one tournament with a lot of peoople we have a incredible feeling....
or example one day i win one freeroll who played 19k players...
The first major difference between cash games and tournaments is that in tournaments you can only lose the amount of your buy-in. In a cash game, you can lose your entire stack. It's a lot easier to be fearless when all you have at risk is your $50 tournament buy-in as opposed to the $1,000 you bring to the cash game. In a tournament, the chips have no value other than as a means to determine where you place. This brings us to the next big difference. In tournaments, you get instant feedback as to your results. You know by the end of the tournament if you made it to the money and how far you advanced. Cash games are measured over the long haul. Success or failure should not be measured in one session or even a few sessions. If you are looking for instant gratification, cash games are not for you....
Some people prefer the challenge of playing cash games, and others prefer the buzz of playing in poker tournaments. It really comes down to personal preference, so you should decide for yourself if you prefer cash games or poker tournaments.
Personally i like tournament, because if we win i win a lot of money and the pleasure of winning one tournament with a lot of peoople we have a incredible feeling....
or example one day i win one freeroll who played 19k players...
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J
Jabres
Rising Star
Silver Level
Mildly successful was turning a profit consistently. I say only mildly successful because I had built my bankroll up to $10k from $100 by moving up stakes consistently. I was a consistent winner in $500 no limit heads-up sngs. However, I wasn't aware of the math back then. I was playing on pure intuition. Eventually (obviously), standard deviation caught up with me for playing such high stakes. Everytime that I had lost, it was a result of an insane bad beat so I had come to the conclusion that pokerstars was rigged. Now (I was 18 then) that I've learned the math I know that probably is an indication that I played pretty well back then.
5 years is actually a long time to sit out. So for me to come back in as an ignorant goose isn't too much of a stretch, but say what you will. In this past month I've made considerable gains catching back up to the game, and within a years time I'd wager that I'd be not only back to where I was before, but even better.
milka1605
Legend
Loyaler
I'm just of others will confirm and give my opinion. Freerolls are not a measure of success. Even tournaments for money is not fully reveal the talent. I believe that the only the game a live become a decisive factor in determining the quality of the players.
A
assweasel
Rising Star
Bronze Level
This is a real old post but has a lot of ggod information in it and deserves a bump.
My 2 cents? These freerolls are not poker.
They are some weird mutation.
Play enough of these and even an experienced player is going to pick up some very bad habits that will not serve you well in real money games.
There is no such thing as a good Freeroll Player. It does not matter how good your cards are some idjit is going to push you all in with absolutely nothing.
You will win a few times but It only takes the one loss to end your freeroll run.
I also believe wholeheartedly that these freerolls are tweaked to have the bad players a better chance with the flush or st8 getting filled on the river. I have seen it time and time again. To the point that I've thought of trying to figure out when to push all in with the garbage hand that is designed to win at the end.
If you can afford it go live and forget the freerolls. They will teach you nothing but bad habits and practices.
Me I use to just time out on everyhand making the clock progress quicker and blinds to go up with far fewer hands being played.
This Allin shovers are really disrespecting everyone at the table. Not only do they make it hard to play they also end up having massive chips being funneled to players.
When the donks are eliminated from the feild (and they always end up out) there are some players that have a massive chip lead on you because they had the opportunity to take them off some donks.
It is kind of like entering a tourney where a few players all have 5 times the chips you do. You would not pay to enter tha.
One lat comment is with so many people playing you can end up on a table where there are actually only 1 or 2 players actually playing the others are AFK. Once again a disadvantage to tables where more players are actually at their seats. More players means more opportunity to win more money. Less playing means less money. They should just eliminate those seats and players by absorbing those chips into the rake.
It would speed up the game a bit as well.
My 2 cents? These freerolls are not poker.
They are some weird mutation.
Play enough of these and even an experienced player is going to pick up some very bad habits that will not serve you well in real money games.
There is no such thing as a good Freeroll Player. It does not matter how good your cards are some idjit is going to push you all in with absolutely nothing.
You will win a few times but It only takes the one loss to end your freeroll run.
I also believe wholeheartedly that these freerolls are tweaked to have the bad players a better chance with the flush or st8 getting filled on the river. I have seen it time and time again. To the point that I've thought of trying to figure out when to push all in with the garbage hand that is designed to win at the end.
If you can afford it go live and forget the freerolls. They will teach you nothing but bad habits and practices.
Me I use to just time out on everyhand making the clock progress quicker and blinds to go up with far fewer hands being played.
This Allin shovers are really disrespecting everyone at the table. Not only do they make it hard to play they also end up having massive chips being funneled to players.
When the donks are eliminated from the feild (and they always end up out) there are some players that have a massive chip lead on you because they had the opportunity to take them off some donks.
It is kind of like entering a tourney where a few players all have 5 times the chips you do. You would not pay to enter tha.
One lat comment is with so many people playing you can end up on a table where there are actually only 1 or 2 players actually playing the others are AFK. Once again a disadvantage to tables where more players are actually at their seats. More players means more opportunity to win more money. Less playing means less money. They should just eliminate those seats and players by absorbing those chips into the rake.
It would speed up the game a bit as well.
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Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
So you're sure players can only learn bad habits from freerolls... but actually it's rigged. So you time 'the rig' with junk hands.. thinking they'll hit.
Maybe they pick up those habits because they're bad players?
So you time out every hand.... because?
But then you end with a suggestion to the sites on how they can speed up their games?
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M
myuk1
Enthusiast
Silver Level
yeah i wouldn't consider myself a strong player by any means. I do however do well in a lot of the freerolls I play. At least 50% of the players in them don't really play seriously or are just awful. Theres nothing to lose so I think that factors in to a lot of people's play. You do sound like your in a decent percent of players tho.
R
Running Nose II
Visionary
Silver Level
One of the main differences between freerolls and live games is that in the latter you are putting up your own cash, and another is the standard of the player. Now I am not decrying freeroll player's standards, most of whom play a solid game, but there are others who treat it like bingo. Are you ready to step up? Winning one freeroll is not a good judge, win a few and if you can win you are ready.
orsino12
Legend
Bronze Level
I think playing freerolls forces you to adapt to many differt styles of play.
Early on it's a minefield, but there is also a lot of easy chips for the taking and you can play ultra tight or ultra loose and both styles work to some extent.
If you make it somewhat deep play starts to resemble something like real poker and you can play a more standard style (this only applies to regular or turbo games, once it gets to hyper or super turbo it never really plays out like "real" poker as even those among the chip leaders are often technically short stacked).
You can pick up bad habits, but I think if you remain aware of the game you are playing you can keep freeroll playing style from carrying over to cash buy in games.
Heck, the difference between freerolls and the lower micro MTT's is almost non existent so if you can win at freerolls consistently you should be able to do well with the smaller micros.
Early on it's a minefield, but there is also a lot of easy chips for the taking and you can play ultra tight or ultra loose and both styles work to some extent.
If you make it somewhat deep play starts to resemble something like real poker and you can play a more standard style (this only applies to regular or turbo games, once it gets to hyper or super turbo it never really plays out like "real" poker as even those among the chip leaders are often technically short stacked).
You can pick up bad habits, but I think if you remain aware of the game you are playing you can keep freeroll playing style from carrying over to cash buy in games.
Heck, the difference between freerolls and the lower micro MTT's is almost non existent so if you can win at freerolls consistently you should be able to do well with the smaller micros.
andreigabor
Rock Star
Silver Level
It's a good idea to start freerolls, I started putting money online and at first I lost a lot, after I stopped making deposits and started to play freerolls where I learned a lot because there are many players and I will have a lot of situations.