Does anybody know how to use odds and EV?

[jeambeam]

we learned how to count odds, pot odds, EV and out. but the problem is when we are running tournament on the table. the time is still count down fast. but we still analist our action to use so many formula that we have to calculate. do have a suggest how to make simple calculating with short time calculation to make our action with right odds, out and +EV?

 

[Joe]

Generally speaking we don't do 'full' EV formula calculations while at the felt.

Firstly, poker is a game of partial information, we don't (usually ) know our opponents' exact holding so cannot complete the formula precisely.

Secondly, even if we did know our opponents' holdings, the ten seconds or so standard action time while playing online isn't going to be long enough for most people to do that level of mental arithmetic.

Outs and odds are far simpler, especially if you round each out up to 2%.

With regards to EV, it's more a case of experience gives you a rough idea of what kinda of EV you'll be getting in certain scenarios.

For example (a personal favourite [or peeve] of mine), when you have flopped air + flush draw, calling a pot sized (or larger) bet is essentially always going to be -EV.

But you see fishies all day and every day eager and happy to call off the moon, sun and earth if they flop a flush draw.

Regardless if it's a naked draw, they have no other equity at all and even if they only have a four or five high flush draw- more than happy to put 100's of BB's and their tournament life on the line in situations where they don't hit their draw 2/3.

If they're inexperienced it's fine* of course but players who apparently "have some idea how to play" shouldn't be making big -EV donks like that...

In closing, when thinking in ranges we can't do exact EV calculations. They make excellent post-game tools for analysis to check our decisions but during play it's more of a 'balkpark' approximation of what kind of EV we'll be getting in certain spots garnered from experience.

*For example, back when I was an even more terrible player than today, it used to be a "strat" of mine to just jam after flopping flush draws, hahaha.. In my defence that was the best part of 20 years ago!

 

[fundiver199]

As Tracid say, we dont attempt to do complex EV calculations at the table, at least not when playing online, where our time is limited and many sites dont allow real time use of software like Equilab, that can do the calculations for us. Its something, we work on away from the table, so that over time we get a pretty good idea about our equity in different typical situations, that come up again and again. Also if you did not do it already, I recommend taking the CC "become a winning player in 30 days" course. Some of the early sessions are about concepts like pot odds, implied odds and EV.

 

[dreamer13]

You multiply the results of all possible outcomes by their respective probabilities, and sum it all up. This is not as difficult as it seems at first glance. Every move you make in poker should be aimed at maximizing EV. EV is certainly not something that will drastically change your entire game in an instant, but nevertheless, it is definitely one of the most important mathematical concepts in poker that you must study thoroughly. EV is not something like pot odds that you can use right during the game to determine the profitability of this or that action. You simply won't have time at the table to calculate the EV of every action you take.

 

[jeambeam]

Generally speaking we don't do 'full' EV formula calculations while at the felt.

Firstly, poker is a game of partial information, we don't (usually ) know our opponents' exact holding so cannot complete the formula precisely.

Secondly, even if we did know our opponents' holdings, the ten seconds or so standard action time while playing online isn't going to be long enough for most people to do that level of mental arithmetic.

Outs and odds are far simpler, especially if you round each out up to 2%.

With regards to EV, it's more a case of experience gives you a rough idea of what kinda of EV you'll be getting in certain scenarios.

For example (a personal favourite [or peeve] of mine), when you have flopped air + flush draw, calling a pot sized (or larger) bet is essentially always going to be -EV.

But you see fishies all day and every day eager and happy to call off the moon, sun and earth if they flop a flush draw.

Regardless if it's a naked draw, they have no other equity at all and even if they only have a four or five high flush draw- more than happy to put 100's of BB's and their tournament life on the line in situations where they don't hit their draw 2/3.

If they're inexperienced it's fine* of course but players who apparently "have some idea how to play" shouldn't be making big -EV donks like that...

In closing, when thinking in ranges we can't do exact EV calculations. They make excellent post-game tools for analysis to check our decisions but during play it's more of a 'balkpark' approximation of what kind of EV we'll be getting in certain spots garnered from experience.

*For example, back when I was an even more terrible player than today, it used to be a "strat" of mine to just jam after flopping flush draws, hahaha.. In my defence that was the best part of 20 years ago!

dont we use that +/- EV to make decision that should we call, raise or Fold right ? thats what i learn before. event we still 2:3 odss.. but if he ask me to invest too valuable with -EV that wish we better fold than go in although our out exactly hit. but the reality we dont know it really will really come or not.... its still a mistery until the card dealt. most off them when we miss calculating EV and that the way bad beat is gonna happen. as like as the tournament concept. not how make big stack and capital but this how long you can survive and still save until the bubble.

i mean when we use EV calculating there to many formula that we have to use it as like ( % off win X prize ) - (% of lose X value to pay or value Lose money) its itu complicated to realize it. because have many number although we use calculator still we dont have time enough

i mean a simple formula likes odds calculating also have ac curated number of summary but we can it silmple with formula (total Out X 4) to turn and river and (total out x 2 ) to river. even the result are not accurate as like as we use calculator but at least the result is closed from it. so that, with that simple formula we should not count the odds from basic anymore likes our out : 52 - 2 - card dealt - out and etc

 

[jeambeam]

As Tracid say, we dont attempt to do complex EV calculations at the table, at least not when playing online, where our time is limited and many sites dont allow real time use of software like Equilab, that can do the calculations for us. Its something, we work on away from the table, so that over time we get a pretty good idea about our equity in different typical situations, that come up again and again. Also if you did not do it already, I recommend taking the CC "become a winning player in 30 days" course. Some of the early sessions are about concepts like pot odds, implied odds and EV.

what is became player that you means? honestly i understood about pot odds, implied odds ev. a few years ago i used it and easy to calculate it out my brain. bacause it still young. but after i break play poker almoust 4 or 5 years.. never touch any card anymore. there is the problem found, i lost some of my technical, fundamental, reading opponent and psychologist reading, management conflict and etc. and the worse i cant calculate EV as fast as 5 years ago. those why i need a anybody have a solutions to calculate this EV with simple formula

 

[jeambeam]

You multiply the results of all possible outcomes by their respective probabilities, and sum it all up. This is not as difficult as it seems at first glance. Every move you make in poker should be aimed at maximizing EV. EV is certainly not something that will drastically change your entire game in an instant, but nevertheless, it is definitely one of the most important mathematical concepts in poker that you must study thoroughly. EV is not something like pot odds that you can use right during the game to determine the profitability of this or that action. You simply won't have time at the table to calculate the EV of every action you take.

yes that is what i mean EV is not like a pot but we need that pot odd to calculating our EV. is our profit able or not. i am looking for a software or Apps about EV calculating QUIZ, so we that we can practice how can calculating that EV with right answer by that limit time, time by time with more practice can make our memorize sharper than before or maybe anybody know that simple formula for EV calculating

 

[hilary antonik filho]

The time we have is so short that the only thing we have is our strategy or maybe intuition, the more we try the easy, the harder it gets, good luck with your tactics

 

[Joe]

dont we use that +/- EV to make decision that should we call, raise or Fold right ? thats what i learn before. event we still 2:3 odss.. but if he ask me to invest too valuable with -EV that wish we better fold than go in although our out exactly hit. but the reality we dont know it really will really come or not.... its still a mistery until the card dealt. most off them when we miss calculating EV and that the way bad beat is gonna happen. as like as the tournament concept. not how make big stack and capital but this how long you can survive and still save until the bubble.

i mean when we use EV calculating there to many formula that we have to use it as like ( % off win X prize ) - (% of lose X value to pay or value Lose money) its itu complicated to realize it. because have many number although we use calculator still we dont have time enough

i mean a simple formula likes odds calculating also have ac curated number of summary but we can it silmple with formula (total Out X 4) to turn and river and (total out x 2 ) to river. even the result are not accurate as like as we use calculator but at least the result is closed from it. so that, with that simple formula we should not count the odds from basic anymore likes our out : 52 - 2 - card dealt - out and etc

If someone gives you something better than comparing your pot odds against your odds and factoring your decision based on implied ranges Vs your hand with consideration to the relative stack size, any fold equity, yours and your opponent's table image...

Do please let me know. 🥰

 

[jeambeam]

If someone gives you something better than comparing your pot odds against your odds and factoring your decision based on implied ranges Vs your hand with consideration to the relative stack size, any fold equity, yours and your opponent's table image...

Do please let me know. 🥰

so do i, iam waiting for that answer also, maybe somebody know how is the simple calculation than we have to use complicated calculation. different position if we play in live, we have much time and also we can use impulse factor (make them fear of loss, Greedy or aggressive, hustle as like as we already NUT, and no free judge) to pressure them as our additional equity because we are facing we can talk with them to changes their decisions as likes as we want but in online poker we loss that equity. we can not talk to influence them. we just make pressure by actions.

so that we have to changes the strategy, i used FOREX system in poker. used equity, margin, leverage and drawdown system. for example : i must to protect my chips , and just 15% (for passive) or 30% (for aggressive) maximum of my chip if somebody invite me to all in. if more that that percentage i choose FOLD even i had pocket bullet (AA) or pocket KINGs or AK. because we must remember, it just a PAIR or HIGH CARD if got a bad luck.

 

[Andyreas]

If someone gives you something better than comparing your pot odds against your odds and factoring your decision based on implied ranges Vs your hand with consideration to the relative stack size, any fold equity, yours and your opponent's table image...

Do please let me know. 🥰

There is. Knowing the other person's cards. 🤪

 

[Joe]

There is. Knowing the other person's cards. 🤪

My preferred method!