Allin Pre-Flop

[playinggameswithu]

Well with the exception of shoving because you are low on blinds and you are into a push or fold mode, because your blinds dont allow you to play post flop.

There is also the matter of not getting enough value if you dont shove or getting donked or bluffed if your postflop play isnt good.

One example is this.

You have and decide not to shove but slow play them. You get called and the flop comes , now that is a scary board for your aces, opponent can have the straight or the flush already. Now how do you procceed? Shoving is out of question, if you bet and get called you will play turn and river cautiously and go for pot control. You go to showdown and your opponent show a pocket pair of 6. If you shoved preflop he would call with the worst hand and you would get all his stack, but now you won only a small pot.

Now an other example. You have aces again, and the flop is something like . Your opponent shoves. What you do with aces on that flop? You call. If he had pocket sixes now you lose your stack. If he had 65 you probably lost again, if he is on a draw now he have more possibilities to either call and crack your aces or if lets say he had AK that he would call a preflop shove now if you bet on that flop he will fold and you will win a tiny pot again.

And now thats aces. Kings or Queens are even worse, cause any Ace on the board can kill your action. So you may end up with a little pot or lose big if you decide to slow play a big hand.

Shoving big hands is +ev, especially with all the loose players out there who are willing to call with pocket deuces or Ace high.

Aces are rarely a post flop hand...in fact they lose callability from opponets post flop and their equity goes down. Play them pre flop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Spaceman]

Aces are rarely a post flop hand...in fact they lose callability from opponets post flop and their equity goes down. Play them pre flop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats exactly what I am trying to tell with my example!:icon_thum

 

[ph_il]

A lot of donks go allin preflop early in a tourney because there scared to play post flop
having said that late in the tourney when your less then 10bb left and your have a decent hand and it is folded to you should shove allin do to ICM factors and try to build your chip stack to at least average stack size if not above average chip stack to get ready for a deep tourney run.

ICM is only a factor at the final table.

 

[whosdaboss25]

ICM becomes a factor when you are under 10BB not only at the final table sorry that you do not get the concept.

 

[kowrip]

When dealt AA, you are at least 80% to win the hand pre-flop against 1 other player. You are rarely going to get an edge this good, certainly never pre-flop. So, you generally want to take those odds if somebody is willing to shove their entire stack. Granted, you will still lose about 20% of the time, but you want to take as many of these bets as you can. The only time it might not make sense is when there are multiple people all-in and/or you are nearly ITM in a tournament. Those are the only cases where it might be more profitable to fold.

 

[david1bear]

I do it when the blinds are up pretty high on a great hand to try to get a one on one:0) but there are times too in the beginning of a tournament to build up my stack and hope I catch or just win:0)

 

[smileagame]

A lot of donks go allin preflop early in a tourney because there scared to play post flop
having said that late in the tourney when your less then 10bb left and your have a decent hand and it is folded to you should shove allin do to ICM factors and try to build your chip stack to at least average stack size if not above average chip stack to get ready for a deep tourney run.

wow weirdly enough , I never even thought about that angle! But earlier today had someone at the table that got the greatest streak of luck ever. He continued to go all in pre-flop every single freaking hand. it happened AT-LEAST 8 times(more like 15+) in a row and he won about 85+%, including get four of a kind even. I shoved once to try and get him out, and lost half my 20K stack on the craziest luck. Now that I look at it though, he would not play ANY hands post flop. I don't understand why thats scary? Hes worried he will bet then someone will force him all in with a bad hand? Its just when he could so easily lose one all-in and be out, why in the world would he be afraid of that!

 

[8bod8]

Current ''theory'' seems to tell us that the goal with AA is to be All-In pre flop with 1 opponent.

In old books you can find: never commit more than 50% of your stack.

Al the same: in the past it were the chineese, italians (hadrianus), germans (berlin), etc. building a wall. These things did their job for some time. Nowadays walls are popular with some presidents.... Darwin called it evolution.

 

[123cards321]

all in preflop

Personally I think that most people go all in when they have a really high hand like AK AQ AJ A10 or a pair. The first have almost the same chance of taking it than any other two cards with a slight advantage, however when going all in with that you can be called by someone with the same A but a lower kicker.

In my opinion the most justifiable all in preflop is the pocket pair since it might not be too much of a strong hand to bet 3 times on it but you might get called and increase significantly your stack

 

[JAE1957]

Going all-in pre-flop first hand after tournament started...i just call them Bingo players.

I agree with that! It does irritate me whenever someone goes all in pre-flop, at any stage of the game but first hand just gets under my skin... I play tournaments to improve and build my skills not trust in luck.

 

[johnny tigre]

whatever the hole cards are, be it 27os or AA, nobody is 100% sure to win if he goes all in pre flop. Whoever does this, leaves it to lady luck to decide if youre staying in the game or not.

 

[Moosesfull82]

Mind you I play heads up lots because I don’t like the variance of MTTS but in regards to all in situations I’d advise not to try to go all in preflop in MTTS without it being two or less other players and you have a very high range of your premium hands (AA KK AK QQ maybe AQsuited) but besides those hands I wouldn’t push or call an all in preflop unless you’re getting short stacked (20 BB or less) and you have to have a double up to survive long term in that MTT. But if you want more better results of when to push all in pre flop studying all in tables are a good option. But lots of factors play too such as level of buy in and players because in low stakes there are LOTS of bingo players just pushing all in n hoping. But with heads up I push all in depending on the player I’m playing if he is tight I might push all in to his raises multiple times if he is known to be tight and not want to risk his entire stack. And the rank of my hand don’t matter to me just if he’s going call or not matters. I got caught many times with hands in cookie jars lol

 

[Yermek]

I do not like all in preflop. Lottery game. It's a shame when fish kill monsters in some kind of pair 2

 

[Jezdic]

I also prefer to play all in when I see a flop. But I'm constantly going to pre-flop with kings or aces as a pocket pair. After my beting to x3, someone play all in, I need to call with top pair preflop.

 

[thxitz]

I really hate this players that go all in pre-flop, but each player have their own strategy... many times their are bluffing... I just do that with a nice pair on my hand

 

[ph_il]

I agree with that! It does irritate me whenever someone goes all in pre-flop, at any stage of the game but first hand just gets under my skin... I play tournaments to improve and build my skills not trust in luck.

Is having to fold that first hand to an all in really that serious that it gets under your skin?

Oh no, you have to fold the first hand. How ever will you be able to improve now?

 

[finaltable1]

Ask yourself, why would anybody go allin pre-flop, bearing in mind that there is no hand that can't be beaten. Why not wait for the flop and and then go allin.I always feel that they are trying to bluff, and if I have them covered, and have a fairly good hand I'll call. There are a whole raft of conditions to consider, position, stack sizes etc, but usually they were bluffing.

Why are they?
I've asked myself and I see many answers based on may factors.
First of all if you're thinking in such way, then why do you play poker at all? Why invest into poker, if you have 200-500-10.000 opponents to beat, and you can fail during any of 100-300-800 hands played in the tournament. You have less than 0.01% chance to get to the 1st place each time you're playing the tourney. You have like 2-5% to get in the money in MTT with 1 in 7 paid...

If you're having a good hand in a loose tournament with 1-2-10$ buy-in and bounties, for example you've got AA, then you're going all-in for the value and to defend your hand from hands like 89s.

If you're playing at a very tight table and you're going all-in with hand like 89s then most probably a tight opponent will fold his 99-TT-JJ being scared to lose his chips without seing the community cards.

You're saying that "usually they we're bluffing".. who are "they"? your opponents in a freeroll? If I have 8 tables open with money invested in each table, then should I care about the ninth table which is freeroll and I've got KQ there? ALL-IN with no doubts. If I have 100 dollars invested into 4 tables and 5th table is a annoying satellite with 1 dollar buy-in - should I pay attention to the game and opponents if I've got AT? I simply push ALL-IN.

You can have reads, doubts, insights - it doesn't matter, what matters is that there is no universal solution, any hand can win and any hand can lose. If you're saying ALL-IN without having a look at your cards, and you don't know your opponents cards, also there are no coomunity cards at the table, it means that you know that you've got 2 unknown cards and opponent has 2 unknown cards, at this moment of the game mathematical equasion is very simple. It's 50/50. Even if I see that I have 7-2os, still I can ignore the fact that it's 7-2 and push all in, just because of GTO, my chances to win the hand will be 50/50 until someone calls, and before we see the river I still most like have only 2 choices, to win the hand or to lose the hand. BUT since most probably opponents will fold to my all-in then I will simply collect the blinds and it's great for a hand like 7-2os.

But once again there is no universal solution and no exact explanation on why people go all-in preflop. Personally I wouldn't call or go all-in preflop at the wsop early stage with any hand, even AA. From the other hand I will always go all-in with much weaker hands in a freeroll tournament. I do think that all-in with JQ in a freeroll is a EV+ decision and I also don't think that going or calling all-in early in important tournament is a EV+ decision. Being in the money or short stacked = no problem. But risking a 100+ bb stack that costs $10-20-50K for pocket aces is something that I can not accept as a good decision. Well IF such buy-in is not a big money, then it's ok to gamble with AA, such decision is not a sign of tilt if you're a multi millionaire.

 

[west28]

Its very tough to shove all in preflop its a flip of a coin most of the time specially with poker stars when the river its a nightmare to a lot of made hands that get run over at the End card.

 

[jofieloviedo]

You can earn more if you go all in pre-flop

I think go all in pre-flop with a very strong hand is one of the best options to earn too much money playing poker of course you can lose to much money too but if you know in what situations you should go all in pre-flop you will surely win more than what you will lose.

I think is better go all in pre-flop instead of just see the flop cause imagine if we have AA and the other player have somthing like I don't know AT if we just want to see the flop he could pay our bet instead of fold his hand and imagine the flop is not good enough for us and the flop is TT4 or something like that the other player will win and if we go all in preflop we could avoid that situations and the rival most likely fold before see the flop

 

[B1731898]

Exactly! There are times depending on my stack size, I know I have the better hand, and there's a chance they WILL think I'm bluffing. If I just want the pot, I take it. If they call,...almost always, I add their chip stack to mine.

 

[rigor mortis]

Thanks to everyone for their input to this topic, it certainly raised a considerable number of replies.
Both sides can benefit from the discussion raised, depending on which way you favour.

 

[John Turnner]

logic is simple.
All-in preflop means that you have a short stack and you want to double.
If you all-in only premium hands, then you are a weak player, you will be calculated and will not calls.
You need to expand your range of push, then they will call more often and you will have fold equity with hands of medium strength.
As a result, you not only double down, but also style the blinds. More chips in the capillary.

 

[UncleConRon]

My opinion

I like to go all in pre-flop when hole cards are do. The flop turn river are deceiving and keep an opponent in. Take the blinds.