WCOOP Main Event - AJKHoosier1 is a complete idiot!

[nevadanick]

and honestly if he is so good, why does he even need backers? seems he would have plenty of his own money.

There is an excellent explanation from a top player with backers on last week's Stars VIP Pokercast, episode 40. It's a segment interview of Paul Smith (scr: uclabruinz). Paul is a practicing attorney who plays with backers. The essence of the subject of backers is that the backers put up the entry and from any profits, they have to absorb the entry fees while the player pockets his profits, entry FREE.

Paul has the money to back himself and they address this in detail. Worth listening to.

 

[OzExorcist]

There is an excellent explanation from a top player with backers on last week's Stars VIP Pokercast, episode 40. It's a segment interview of Paul Smith (scr: uclabruinz). Paul is a practicing attorney who plays with backers. The essence of the subject of backers is that the backers put up the entry and from any profits, they have to absorb the entry fees while the player pockets his profits, entry FREE.

Paul has the money to back himself and they address this in detail. Worth listening to.

As alluded to above, there's a suggestion that the "backers" in the OP were fictitious, and that whole routine was just an angle shoot on AJK's part.

Particularly if that was the case, I doff my cap to the guy. Quality work. Douchey, to be sure, but quality none the less.

 

[nevadanick]

Oz >> I agree that the comments were likely an angle shoot. I was commenting on 'face's' post about backers in general and the op using his own funds.

The very act of making the chop is a huge impact on the outcome in itself. People will play very differently, depending on the seed of RNG the cards themselves may well be different. So thinking this way is entirely the wrong way to approach it.

It's like people who point out they folded K3 when the flop comes 333 as if it has any relevance. They still made the right decision.

On Stars, it would have some relevance. Yes, folding the K3 might have been the right decision, while the 333 still would have been the board cards. Stars presets the entire 52 card deck before the first card to a hand is dealt, delivering the board cards just as a live table would. Minus the burn cards, which are unnecesasary online.

 

[Gavinski]

I was watching this final table, and I think AJK was playing on the fact he knew the chip leader was willing to go down to 1.3, meaning he had room to try and squeeze extra money out of him.

I also think this left ShoesRDurrty with a raw deal. If I was ShoesRDurrty I would have asked for more after AJK did the second time.

ShoesRDurrty had over 5 million chips, AJK only had about 3.5 million, yet ShoesRDurrty only got less than 20k more than AJK. I was very suprised when they didn't ask for me after this.

 

[Irexes]

On Stars, it would have some relevance. Yes, folding the K3 might have been the right decision, while the 333 still would have been the board cards. Stars presets the entire 52 card deck before the first card to a hand is dealt, delivering the board cards just as a live table would. Minus the burn cards, which are unnecesasary online.

Which doesn't change my point at all in that folding K3 is still the right decision in the long term regardless of the outcome after that decision is made.

Same is true of chops.

 

[dj11]

I suggest we get a large group of CC'ers into the next humongous game and all get to the final table so we can discuss a chop and then write volumns about the deal making process.

 

[Jagsti]

Wow, staking Rex in next years WCOOP, has exciting implications imfo!

 

[vanquish]

I understand chops, don't know if I would ever do one, but this one was crazy. I would feel like crap knowing that I came back to take third, but was still stuck with the 5th place money. I would feel good however if I were the first place chop that did recieve second!

This is just silly. He was in position to get 5th, but guaranteed himself $110k more than he would have gotten if he had, indeed, finished 5th. So, he talked himself into $110k, at which point it became winner takes all for $200k more. You are being results oriented. Do not call this man an idiot.

 

[Crummy]

This is just silly. He was in position to get 5th, but guaranteed himself $110k more than he would have gotten if he had, indeed, finished 5th. So, he talked himself into $110k, at which point it became winner takes all for $200k more. You are being results oriented. Do not call this man an idiot.

Oh, I'm sorry...........He's an idiot! and an ASS!!

 

[Stick66]

Jeez. I guess the larger amount of money makes people do stranger things. I watched KC's final table where he won $13K and a chop was barely even mentioned. (I think it was mentioned once, but was ignored amongst some trash talking observers.)

 

[rugby0]

I thought It was a brillant arguement for not getting involved in chops. Most of the time you will loose money if you are the chip leader.

 

[Irexes]

With 5 left chipleader really doesn't = winner, or even 2nd.

What it does give you is strong negotiating position for chops to maximise the equity you have and avoid variance. If you think that it's a cruise in with even half the chips in play you've either been very lucky or not played many final tables.

Not addressing this at anyone in particular, but when pretty much every major tournament is chopped you have to think there's probably a reason for it.

 

[RazzleDazzle]

Ok, let me re-phrase what I said... AJK is an absolute IDIOT!! He made a deal and actually lost money if you look at the origional standings of the prize pool before the deal. He ended up getting third, which is a nice come back from his stack when they were down to 5. But he lost over $600,000. liberace ended up making the best deal with his second place finish and first place money.

What I was meaning about him being an idiot is because he was being an arrogant ASS! I don't give two shits who you are, how good you are, what place you rank, play the game and go with what life gives you.

He may have come in third in the end, however, its not really like he came in third because they had already chopped the pot at that point. The remaining players were no longer playing the same way as they were before they chopped the pot. When theres 5 people (it was 5 at that point right?) playing, and the only way for you to win anything is to come in first, you're going to play completely different than if every place higher you get, you make X00,000$ more. The game didn't even last that much longer after that point, if they hadn't chopped, the game would have lasted longer and the final outcome would have been different.

 

[brianvoytek]

He got more money, and made more in that tourney then any one of us. He's not an idiot. Look him up on Pocket Fives and see how good this guy really is.

GL on the felt.

 

[Rememberthis1]

Something tells me making 800000 dollars makes you pretty smart!

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

saying that this guy is an idiot for chopping then coming third is kinda like me calling you an idiot for entering every tournament that you don't cash in.

just sayin'.

 

[vanquish]

Oh, I'm sorry...........He's an idiot! and an ASS!!

You're making yourself look like the idiot for arguing a null point.

 

[Crummy]

You're making yourself look like the idiot for arguing a null point.

I don't care!

 

[Crummy]

saying that this guy is an idiot for chopping then coming third is kinda like me calling you an idiot for entering every tournament that you don't cash in.

just sayin'.

And that makes sense why?

 

[Harthgrepa]

I'm suprised he was the only one who asked for more from the chipleader. The chipleader would have been happy with 1.3, there was 75k more someone might have squeezed out of him.

I'd say he did alright with getting 110k more, though if he is as good as he think she is, I'm suprised he agreed to chop at all.

~H

 

[Crummy]

Here is my point on this entire topic.

1. Don't be an arrogant ass and brag about yourself, that makes you look stupid and big headed. I hate when people are cocky!

2. Yeah you could have made more, but you wanted to be greedy and get what you could at the time instead of seeing how the cards played out.

That is my .02 cents if you don't like it, I DONT CARE, but I will gladly listen to what you have to say, even if I don't agree! You have your views and opinions, I have mine. If you were in front of me and not on the other side of the internet I would tell you to your face the same thing I am typing!

 

[vanquish]

Here is my point on this entire topic.

1. Don't be an arrogant ass and brag about yourself, that makes you look stupid and big headed. I hate when people are cocky!

2. Yeah you could have made more, but you wanted to be greedy and get what you could at the time instead of seeing how the cards played out.

That is my .02 cents if you don't like it, I DONT CARE, but I will gladly listen to what you have to say, even if I don't agree! You have your views and opinions, I have mine. If you were in front of me and not on the other side of the internet I would tell you to your face the same thing I am typing!

I'm sure he was sitting there thinking: "Oh, damn, I just got $110k, but I feel awful because this one guy on a poker forum "doesn't care" and thinks I'm a "COMPLETE IDIOT!!!" **** my life!"

 

[gnomo]

I dont think he's a complete idiot. He is not obligated to accept the deal, he is capable to play well short stack, if he think that he needs more and the others at the table agree, no problem.

As someone said, the chip # deal is better for the chip leader of course, a ICM deal would be more fair.

 

[Boeggs]

AJK is a top player. I believe he stopped playing for awhile and just got back into it recently. I believe the backer thing was just a ploy to extract more money. Lets face it, it's a poker game and what is the #1 objective: to win the most money you can.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

And that makes sense why?

you are essentially saying he is an idiot for taking a +ev deal based purely on the final results of the donkament.

assuming you are a better than average tournament player, entering a tournament would be +ev for you. if i were to say you were an idiot for entering a tournament you didn't cash in, i would essentially be saying that you were an idiot for taking a +ev deal based purely on the final results of the donkament. of course this would make no sense, but what you're saying makes no sense either, because it uses the exact same fundamental argument.

you really are digging a giant hole for yourself in this thread bro.

I'm sure he was sitting there thinking: "Oh, damn, I just got $110k, but I feel awful because this one guy on a poker forum "doesn't care" and thinks I'm a "COMPLETE IDIOT!!!" **** my life!"

loooool now i remember why i missed you <3