Tom Dwan ( Durrrr) won the biggest pot 919k

[-Phil Ivey27]

because its profitable?

If EV + Fold Equity>0 its a profitable play. Its not about what happens that hand but what happens in the long run.

read https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/anatomy-downswing-107305/ and it will help put it in better terms.

Wait, so your gonna tell me that putting 1k in a pot, in a 50-50 situation, is going to be profitable?

It seems with this that you would break even, and considering rake, break a little below even, and if you are unlucky, much more below even.

Am I wrong? If so then explain.

 

[Deltafrost]

Wait, so your gonna tell me that putting 1k in a pot, in a 50-50 situation, is going to be profitable?

It seems with this that you would break even, and considering rake, break a little below even, and if you are unlucky, much more below even.

Am I wrong? If so then explain.

All the times your opponent calls you you will break even over time. But what about the times he folds?

lets use $100 stacks for an example.

When called your EV is (200*.50)=100 (both stacks in, you will get your money back minus rake. But lets say he folds even 15% of the time when half of his stack is already in the pot you get (100*.15)=$15 for your EV for the folding part of your shove.

Take both of those together (100+15)=115 or an EV of the total shove to be +$15.

I hope that makes sense. IF he always calls then yes, you lose money to the rake, but the (even slight) chance that he folds an overpair or has air makes the play profitable long term.

 

[-Phil Ivey27]

All the times your opponent calls you you will break even over time. But what about the times he folds?

lets use $100 stacks for an example.

When called your EV is (200*.50)=100 (both stacks in, you will get your money back minus rake. But lets say he folds even 15% of the time when half of his stack is already in the pot you get (100*.15)=$15 for your EV for the folding part of your shove.

Take both of those together (100+15)=115 or an EV of the total shove to be +$15.

I hope that makes sense. IF he always calls then yes, you lose money to the rake, but the (even slight) chance that he folds an overpair or has air makes the play profitable long term.

Yes, I absouletly agree.

But, that is not what I am arguing against. Nor is that what zach said.
He said that he often puts his max buy-in in on flips. Which means he is, lets say, putting 1k in (his called max buy in for the sake of argument)
on a flip. Let's say against another 1k stack. So we are not taking in the possibilities of the other player folding considering its a coin flip, so both players cards and stacks HAVE to be involved.

 

[allndave]

did everyone see the 68off that he played last night against howard's AKs? the expression on howards face at the end of the hand was priceless.lol......... he got durrr'd

 

[vanquish]

Yes, I absouletly agree.

But, that is not what I am arguing against. Nor is that what zach said.
He said that he often puts his max buy-in in on flips. Which means he is, lets say, putting 1k in (his called max buy in for the sake of argument)
on a flip. Let's say against another 1k stack. So we are not taking in the possibilities of the other player folding considering its a coin flip, so both players cards and stacks HAVE to be involved.

a coinflip in poker is +EV because it's implied that there exists a non-zero chance that one of the two players is folding. this is part of the reason blinds/antes exist.

if there is a non-zero amount in the pot already, a coinflip is +EV for both sides (for the shover because the other guy has a non-zero chance of folding, and for the caller because there is > 0 money already in the pot)

 

[Deltafrost]

a coinflip in poker is +EV because it's implied that there exists a non-zero chance that one of the two players is folding. this is part of the reason blinds/antes exist.

if there is a non-zero amount in the pot already, a coinflip is +EV for both sides (for the shover because the other guy has a non-zero chance of folding, and for the caller because there is > 0 money already in the pot)

^ This

 

[zachvac]

umm, Phil Ivey's right, you don't understand what he's saying. He's saying once the player has already called (thus fold equity is 0) there's no point for flipping for a buy-in. I do agree with this. But I think what Durrrr did for metagame is very similar to what Barry does in general. He's not going to take money out, thus opponents play with a bit more scared money. Plus he gets the image that he is simply fearless, especially the way he sorta shrugged off the beat vs. Barry earlier on AA vs. J9. And of course it helps with publicity. If they took a few hundred grand out or ran it 10 times or other nonsense do you think people would be talking about it nearly as much as they are now? So he gets all this by sacrificing no ev whatsoever. Sounds like a good deal to me.

 

[Ice Wolf]

Hasn't this video already been posted on here? Anyway I wish I just had that much to bet in one hand. Daniel says something about it being a freeroll though doesnt he so there not actually betting their money are they? Just chips right?

 

[-Phil Ivey27]

umm, Phil Ivey's right, you don't understand what he's saying. He's saying once the player has already called (thus fold equity is 0) there's no point for flipping for a buy-in. I do agree with this. But I think what Durrrr did for metagame is very similar to what Barry does in general. He's not going to take money out, thus opponents play with a bit more scared money. Plus he gets the image that he is simply fearless, especially the way he sorta shrugged off the beat vs. Barry earlier on AA vs. J9. And of course it helps with publicity. If they took a few hundred grand out or ran it 10 times or other nonsense do you think people would be talking about it nearly as much as they are now? So he gets all this by sacrificing no ev whatsoever. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Thank you, that is exactly what I was saying.

And yes I agree with the rest of what you said here as well.

 

[PattyR]

dam that is frickin insane! never seen this, anyone know when this aired? nice video though, thanks

 

[Deltafrost]

umm, Phil Ivey's right, you don't understand what he's saying. He's saying once the player has already called (thus fold equity is 0) there's no point for flipping for a buy-in. I do agree with this. But I think what Durrrr did for metagame is very similar to what Barry does in general. He's not going to take money out, thus opponents play with a bit more scared money. Plus he gets the image that he is simply fearless, especially the way he sorta shrugged off the beat vs. Barry earlier on AA vs. J9. And of course it helps with publicity. If they took a few hundred grand out or ran it 10 times or other nonsense do you think people would be talking about it nearly as much as they are now? So he gets all this by sacrificing no ev whatsoever. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Oh my bad. I agree then that its pointless to flip. I was taking the hand in general into account with fold possibility>0 not a strict flip.

 

[Wolfpack43ACC]

Wait how is it stubborn to do it how it's normally done? If you can't handle losing 500k why sit 500 BBs deep at a 500/1k game? I've flipped for my buy-in a million times (ok not quite), if they're sitting with it why can't they? And it was Barry who in the first place refused to run it more than once which is what they normally do.

BARRY NEVER RUNS IT TWICE! duhhhhh!

 

[robertmcpokster]

the durrrstein war , i have never seen that thank you for puttin that up , ya dont mess with durrr hes a beast .

_____________
you cannot change the cards your delt just the way you play them RANDY PAUSCH

 

[zachvac]

BARRY NEVER RUNS IT TWICE! duhhhhh!

Why is this a reply to my post?

 

[Infamous1020]

Why is this a reply to my post?

cuz hes an idiot

 

[Aazitis]

Dwan wasn't very happy when he had to put all his money in, so i asume that he knew that he was behind and still did it, impressive.

 

[Cdub512]

tom dwan is the man...i love the way he plays. it is so hard to put him on a hand because he can have any cards at any time.

i think he will win his durrrr challenge against antonius too even though patrik is very good at multitabling. dwan winning the challenge will prove why he is one of the top online poker players in the world.

i also hope he has a very good showing in the wsop

 

[Infamous1020]

Dwan wasn't very happy when he had to put all his money in, so i asume that he knew that he was behind and still did it, impressive.

Im pretty sure Dwan thought he was a fav. or at least flipping.. dont think he was really upset that he had to put it in there

 

[Syfted]

I wonder what Dwan would have done if Barry had called and the turn bricked...

 

[zachvac]

Im pretty sure Dwan thought he was a fav. or at least flipping.. dont think he was really upset that he had to put it in there

And even if not he has odds, pretty sure he looked more indifferent to it. He knew it was the correct play so he made it. Just because it's a lot of money, to him it's what's on the table, so I doubt he goes crazy either way based on the results. He knows if he keeps making correct plays that he'll make money. Also it's possible he was backed so it may not have been a million dollar pot to him anyway.

 

[donn]

that was no skill at all pure luck of the flop after i seen the flop i wouldnt took no money out ether

 

[Sean Pilgrim]

Barry felt MY PAIN on that one lol... I fold aces now

 

[hacsxk]

nutsy player, who gets involved with so many differant hands, no one can get a read on him. this may not be the best sample of his varied play, but his willingness to play out his hand is evident.

 

[Monoxide]

that was no skill at all pure luck of the flop after i seen the flop i wouldnt took no money out ether

lol i wouldnt took no money out

mad engrish skillizizzles yo g

 

[Cool007]

WOW . Good game . High-level player.