SUNGLASSES IN POKER: Maybe douchey, but cheating?

[Mase31683]

Did someone really just say card rooms are bright? Where do you play?

+1, "lol" was my first thought in response to that.

Anyone who knows better wouldn't be wearing glasses at the table anyway if they're playing less than $1,000nl. The massive majority of players at 1/2 and 2/5 are recreational. If you sit down and joke with them and have a care-free attitude then they're feeling normal, in their element, and they're going to play their loose-passive poker they usually do.

If you sit down and put in your headphones, your sunglasses, pull your hood up, and sit in silence because you mean business! You know what that fish is going to think? Holy crap that guy looks scary, I better stay away from him. At the very least he's going to tighten his range against you, which is by definition making him play better specifically against you. But worse he might not call you anymore cuz you're the scary guy, you can actually close the calling stations down.

In a situation where everyone is fairly serious i.e $5/10nl and higher, than glasses aren't as big a deal. Okay you're here to play? So is everyone else, tell us something we didn't know. Also in tournaments, the effect of people being more willing to fold to your bets is a beneficial thing, as chipping up with no risk of losing the hand is just awesome (However the EV implications are still less EV than if they'd call you every time, the math is just different for tournies and having 0 chance of busting can outweigh greater EV situations in terms of ICM calcs).

 

[Leo 50]

If they want to wear them, then let them.
Most of the live players I have played against in Vegas with sunglasses are amateurs that have seen players on TV wearing them.
And most of them give their chips away trying to catch that flush or gutshot against my two pair or set.

Besides some guys (Ferguson for example) make the look seem cool!

 

[OzExorcist]

Cake, IMO.

As for the cheating comment, I think you'll find he's talking about the potential for people to mark the deck in such a way that they can see the marks through their (possibly specially tinted) sunglasses. Others who aren't wearing the specially tinted glasses, or aren't wearing glasses at all, won't see there's anything wrong with the deck.

I dunno how often things like that actually happen, but I'd figure it'd be pretty rare. Plus the comments at the bottom of the link in the OP have a point - there's nothing stopping someone tinting a pair of regular glasses to achieve the same effect and you can hardly ban regular glasses from the table.

(Follow up: yep, that was pretty much his point)

 

[TPC]

Daniel Negreanu isn't exactly saying wearing sunglasses is cheating, he's saying they can be used to cheat. Here is a video he put up on his twitter page.

YouTube- marked cards dominoes poker at cheating

 

[LombardiStix]

I am completely against sunglasses in live poker venues. I think they should be against the rules along with anything else that hides your face while you play. I think it is bad for the game. As poker has become more "mainstream" it will change. Just as all games/sports do as they grow. Rules are made along the way to keep them competitive and sporting. IMO live poker is differentiated from OL poker in a few ways, but one of the main ways is the ability to read your opponent face to face. If we take out this facet of live poker we might as well just play online from home. I want them to be different because they ARE different. I see I'm in the minority, but even if you disagree I hope you can at least see the merit in a sunglasses free game.

Stix

 

[jaggibson]

Ive played some small live tourneys at casinos and haven't used sunglasses. I think i would tend to stick out there. However, if i quailify for wsop you can bet your ass i will wear sunglasses. Probably would wear a bag over my head to hide as much as possible.

 

[belerophon]

I do not personally equate shades with cheating. I also do not wear shades when playing.

However, I do think it is interesting that if I showed up wearing a halloween mask I'd probably not be allowed to play and I find it hard to differentiate between a full face mask and a full face mask made up of assorted hoods, facial hair, sunglasses and hats.

 

[Zorba]

I noticed that DN in that video didn't show the the other side of the cards he was showing, he just showed what he wanted ppl to see. Looked like BS to me.

Companies that make cards make sure that is not possible, and how many casinos or live venues would not check to see if the cards that they are using have that ability.

Also who in their right mind would attempt to mark cards during a game, at the live games that I play if I see any cards that have been tampered with I point it out to the dealer or the ppl running the venue, and also ask for a new deck.

As for the OP's qestion regarding cheating, I don't think you can say it is cheating, cheating implies that you are gaining an advantage, wearing sunglasses does not give you an advantage.

I voted Bastard because I can.

[ ] Sunglasses.Makes u look cool
....think about it

Maybe when you are outside in the sun, indoors they make you look like someone that wants to look like the pro's but without the skill.



I only wear sunglasses when I play online.

 

[Pascal-lf]

Daniel Negreanu isn't exactly saying wearing sunglasses is cheating, he's saying they can be used to cheat. Here is a video he put up on his twitter page.

YouTube- marked cards dominoes poker at cheating

It clearly says "it is even clearer under contact lenses".

They going to check your eyes for non-prescription contacts too?

 

[doops]

If someone wants to wear mirror sunglasses, I'd love it!

Some people think it makes them look cool, some think it hides some possible tells. (Some of the better tells are body tells, anyway.) They do conceal, a bit, where the person is looking. But plenty of folks hide their face with caps or hair or even hands.

And I think Daniel was talking about the cheating when he talked about it on High Stakes Poker. Others mentioned that in some TV tourneys the lights are really bright and sunglasses are helpful.

 

[doops]

Daniel is not only one of the greatest players ever but a great ambassador for the game. However, on this one he is just wrong. Players do what they can to hide tells and detect others tells. Sunglasses are just one tool a player uses. Besides where would it end? Are we goiing to tell Chris Ferguson he can't wear his cowboy hat?

And make him cut his hair and stop covering his mouth!

And everyone in the hand must must put their hands out so others can see if they are shaking!

 

[MAX101]

I've played live with them and without them it didn't change my game lol, to me they just kinda got in the way something else to think about so I stopped wearing them, but I've never tried playing with them online hmmmm lol

 

[Stick66]

View attachment 28348

Players wearing sunglasses in their local $5-$500 MTT or whatever are just plain idiots. It doesn't look cool, it just makes me laugh.

How about a $30 SNG? Guilty as charged.

But I'm not just a "plain" idiot. I'm quite an exceptional one.

 

[rugby0]

3 reasons for sunglasses. 1} Most casinos are too bright. 2} Hide tells. 3} Hide the black eye she gave me for suggesting ?.

 

[Sean Pilgrim]

Poll was missing 1 of 2 of my choices and it would be my definite choice:

"Sunglasses still don't hide that you suck"

"Why are you wearing a hat and sunglasses at a $3/$6 Limit game?"

 

[OzExorcist]

I noticed that DN in that video didn't show the the other side of the cards he was showing, he just showed what he wanted ppl to see. Looked like BS to me.

Companies that make cards make sure that is not possible, and how many casinos or live venues would not check to see if the cards that they are using have that ability.

Also who in their right mind would attempt to mark cards during a game, at the live games that I play if I see any cards that have been tampered with I point it out to the dealer or the ppl running the venue, and also ask for a new deck.

He's not saying that this is a widespread practice, he's just saying that it's possible and therefore maybe enough of a concern to consider banning sunglasses at the table.

Keep in mind that the marking wouldn't need to be anywhere near as elaborate as the marking demonstrated in the video and anyone who's gone to the trouble of getting the ink / lenses / etc required is probably capable of getting said mark onto the card without you noticing.

 

[Sean Pilgrim]

where is this video?

 

[tenbob]

How about a $30 SNG? Guilty as charged.

But I'm not just a "plain" idiot. I'm quite an exceptional one.

If your drinking lots of whiskey then I suppose it could be allowed, i'd still probably laugh though

On a more serious note though, I see a card marking demo in a magic shop a few months back, using said glasses. The guy was selling a "mini-pen", with special glasses, that you can place the pen under a fingernail, pretty easy to mark a full deck using it. He wasnt promoting it for poker, but I rekon that was what it was intended for.

 

[OzExorcist]

Back on page one - it's a guy demonstrating how cards that look normal to the naked eye can be marked with invisible ink or something and how a filter (which could in theory be put on sunglasses lenses) can be used to see the marks.

(Edit: reply to Sean, not TB obv )

 

[tenbob]

Back on page one - it's a guy demonstrating how cards that look normal to the naked eye can be marked with invisible ink or something and how a filter (which could in theory be put on sunglasses lenses) can be used to see the marks.

(Edit: reply to Sean, not TB obv )

Just curious more than anything, but if a player was marking cards using a pen small enough to fit under a fingernail, would as a dealer even notice it ?

Edit : Oz, internet forum pro's are still on page 1

 

[OzExorcist]

Hard to say - if the marks they were making really were invisible to anyone who wasn't wearing the glasses and the people doing it were halfway competent then I expect it wouldn't be that hard to get it past the dealer. We've only got one set of eyes, after all, and most of the time we'll be looking where the current action is.

Plus I'd assumed that if anyone was doing this during a live game they'd be more likely to do something like touch their finger on an ink source in their pocket then smudge it onto the card with their fingertip rather than using a pen, so the action could look 100% innocent.

Or maybe they could have it on the underside of their card protector? I dunno, 99.9% of the card marking problems we get in the games I deal (and the problems are rare to start with) are with unintentional bending because for the most part I deal to n00bs

 

[AtiFCOD]

Yeah it doesn't matter. If sunglasses would be banned, then eg baseball caps could be banned too, cos they also can hide eyes...nuts.
My fav:

 

[WarriorStoic]

Did someone really just say card rooms are bright? Where do you play?

I think sunglasses are funny. Especially because most of the people that I find wearing them are rather fishy. When the kids sit down and puts his sunglasses on and then ear phones in I think it sends the message that you are a defensive player and are scared. It almost screams low confidence.

With that said, I dont think its cheating.

Seriously?

Hmm

tell that to Phil Ivey.
Hat---> Check
ear phones---> Check
Sunglasses---> Check
Ball Cap---> Check

 

[OzExorcist]

Seriously?

Hmm

tell that to Phil Ivey.
Hat---> Check
ear phones---> Check
Sunglasses---> Check
Ball Cap---> Check

Erm... Phil Ivey has said numerous times that he hates wearing sunglasses at the table and the only times you're likely to see him wearing earphones are in long boring donkaments - pretty sure he wouldn't be using them in Bobby's Room.

Point taken though, there are loads of better indicators that someone is a fish than whether they choose to wear sunglasses or a hat or use headphones. Indicators that they're a bit douchey, maybe, but not necessarily fishy.

 

[SilentJay]

However, I do think it is interesting that if I showed up wearing a halloween mask I'd probably not be allowed to play

Haha... I like that comparison. Good point. Someone should try that.

Poll was missing 1 of 2 of my choices and it would be my definite choice:

"Sunglasses still don't hide that you suck"

"I could care less either way since there's more to poker than this." Pretty much includes your choice. Of course, it should be "couldn't" care less, so I suppose you're actually right...