Poker and Gambling.

Lerts

Lerts

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base on all the definitions of gambling wouldnt most sports which rewards players with money base on position place also be considering gambling. For example using my country's culture, we normally have tournaments for various sports, where you would bring your own team, pay an entry fee to participate and compete for the prize money. normally first three places are rewarded. So based on the definition of gambling would this also be gambling?? becuase how i see despite how good i think i am in a sport its no gaurantee that i or my team will win and we are playing for the prize which is money, so is that gambling to??
 
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brianthompson

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Poker is gabling. Sure there is more skill and a better chance of winning than a casino game, it can even be profitable for the players. But if you've ever seen someone with a gambling habit sit down at a cash table it can be hard to watch.
 
nutthink

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if bad beat already happen to us in poker then how can we play poker then say its not gambling.is not gmbling if you 100% already know the result that you gonna win or lose..
 
akmost

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Gambling? is this a rhetorical question? Time always shows who is the gambler and who knows how to play and who has a deeper understanding of the game. If people have in their mind that poker is never-ending flip situation then ok I agree but poker for me is the post flop game and putting your opponent in a range.
 
OzExorcist

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Gambling? is this a rhetorical question? Time always shows who is the gambler and who knows how to play and who has a deeper understanding of the game. If people have in their mind that poker is never-ending flip situation then ok I agree but poker for me is the post flop game and putting your opponent in a range.

Sure... but it's still gambling. It doesn't stop being gambling just because you're winning at it.
 
Nintendo

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If you are putting any of your own money at risk id assume it would be considered gambling.
 
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Ametist17

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In poker, each victory depends on my choice, and in gamblings from good luck, there is no my intervention there! Such as on rates on sport!
 
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HEFOLK132

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I think that the poker is not gambling, but sport where it is necessary to show ability, and, above all logic.
 
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Adam9044

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I can see where people are coming from when they say that it is not gambling, but I don't agree. I would like too because of all the negative associations with gambling, but I can't see it as the case.

First of all the game is random based. Over the course of a long time and many sessions the game may be beatable but that is taking a lot assumptions. Two players may be equally skilled but one could still lose their shirt over a large cold streak. By the very nature of poker you can not escape the randomness.

However even if we were playing a game like chess with no inherent randomness I would still claim that to be gambling if we were waging money. That is the essence of gambling, and it shouldn't matter if there is skill involved or not. The only difference between advantage gambling and regular gambling is one person has more skill.
 
niphon56

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It's gambling which require skill.
 
Abramo Della Luce

Abramo Della Luce

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It's funny that in some places it is seen as a skill game and not gambling:
https://www.cardschat.com/news/poker-and-daily-fantasy-sports-get-skill-game-classifications-38260

And in other places there is not even skill involved:
https://www.cardschat.com/news/dutch-court-rules-no-skill-in-poker-19931

Someone should make a scientific study about this and once and for all show if it is a skill game or gambling.
Like that there is no discussion anymore between lawmakers or judges who have no clue what they are talking about.
It's a bit odd that the people who have to decide a lot of things in name of the people, do this without knowing the subject.
It happens often with a whole range of decisions that have to be made, and this is one of them.
 
milka1605

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I consider it gambling because in the game there are the money. Games that do not use the money it's not gambling.
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

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Sure... but it's still gambling. It doesn't stop being gambling just because you're winning at it.

Wagering money on an event with an uncertain outcome is gambling. Poker is a game where you do exactly that, so it's gambling.

People need to calm down about this IMO - admitting that poker is gambling doesn't automatically mean that there's no skill to it or you're a bad person for participating in it or anything.






Well said sir.
 
Dorugremon

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It's funny that in some places it is seen as a skill game and not gambling:
https://www.cardschat.com/news/poker-and-daily-fantasy-sports-get-skill-game-classifications-38260

And in other places there is not even skill involved:
https://www.cardschat.com/news/dutch-court-rules-no-skill-in-poker-19931

See my OP. This is a false dichotomy: Poker (or blackjack or roulette or Craps or the races or sports) can be both: a game of skill and chance. What makes the difference is the skill required to find the overlays. A pure game of chance like the slots, the lottery, carnival games like Wheel of Fortune or Chuck-a-Luck have a -EV regardless of what you do. You can win any finite series of -EV bets, but not for long. You can lose a series of +EV bets, but eventually you make up for these losses and profit from the +EV situation. Neither negate the short term element of chance.

Someone should make a scientific study about this and once and for all show if it is a skill game or gambling.
Like that there is no discussion anymore between lawmakers or judges who have no clue what they are talking about.
It's a bit odd that the people who have to decide a lot of things in name of the people, do this without knowing the subject.
It happens often with a whole range of decisions that have to be made, and this is one of them.
What do you expect from a pack of lawyers? They're clueless about a lot of things. Poker's one of them. Technology is another. Special interests use that fact to lead them by the nose to whatever conclusion suits these special interests.

All the "scientific studies" will always reach the same conclusion: Poker is chance + skill. If they want to ban games with a built-in bias against the player, then they should say so.

Better still would be getting their damn noses out of everybody's personal business.
 
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PKRNRS

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Of course poker is gambling. You're putting money up to win more money. If it wasn't gambling there would be no cash and it would be made by Parker Bros.
 
Odysseus101

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It's absolutely gambling. If there were no element of putting in money or chips which you might potentially lose, with a potential reward of winning even more money or chips, nobody would play. There's an element of luck and it involves money so it's gambling.
Do you think anybody would give a crap about horse racing these days if there were no gambling involved?
 
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sonebrate996

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poker is gambling but not like a booking or some other shits. this is smart way of gambling :D
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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See my OP. This is a false dichotomy: Poker (or Blackjack or Roulette or Craps or the races or sports) can be both: a game of skill and chance. What makes the difference is the skill required to find the overlays. A pure game of chance like the slots, the lottery, carnival games like Wheel of Fortune or Chuck-a-Luck have a -EV regardless of what you do. You can win any finite series of -EV bets, but not for long. You can lose a series of +EV bets, but eventually you make up for these losses and profit from the +EV situation. Neither negate the short term element of chance.

I think you might have made a couple of mistakes here: roulette is by definition a -EV game, there is no way to play it with a positive expectation (unless you're the house, obv). Same goes for craps (IIRC there are some 0EV bets available in that game, but you have to take -EV bets to get access to them). And blackjack can only be played with a positive expectation under very specific circumstances, which most casinos will deny you.

So... I'm not quite sure why you wouldn't lump those games in with slots or wheel of fortune?
 
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cjhanas

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No doubt in my mind, poker is gambling :)
 
malakata19

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Fo sure is a gambling ...always that you pu money in cards is gambling because you are finding some result of those cards to get money. Its no only skill like any comments.
 
Dorugremon

Dorugremon

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"I think you might have made a couple of mistakes here: roulette is by definition a -EV game, there is no way to play it with a positive expectation (unless you're the house, obv)".

Roulette has two defects that can -- and have been -- exploited. One is biased wheels that spin up numbers with a frequency distorted enough to negate the house edge. This has been known since the 1890s. The other defect is allowing bets to be made after the ball is in motion. This makes wheel clocking possible. This has also been exploited, and the counter measure is legislation to make it illegal to use the technology necessary to clock the wheel.

"Same goes for craps"

This game also has a potentially exploitable defect: the players are allowed to handle the dice. The most obvious exploit is switching a loaded die in and out of the game. Influencing fair dice is another. Depending on how you play, if you can make seven come up too infrequently -- or more frequently -- than it should you have an advantage.

Is this possible? Here, I don't know. Stanford Wong seems to have thought it was possible, then he changed his mind and doesn't think so. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not. Maybe dice influencing is something that requires years of practice to master, and maybe it's one of those things that only some weirdly talented individuals like Frank Scoblete, the "Mad Professor", the "Captain" or the "Arm" can do successfully just as not everyone can bat 300+ or shoot a round of golf 6- under par. No matter how hard they try, most folks aren't gonna be considered for even the minor leagues or come close to the PGA tour. Maybe dice influencing is the same?

"So... I'm not quite sure why you wouldn't lump those games in with slots or wheel of fortune?"

That's why. The only way to beat Wheel of Fortune is psychokinesis, and no one's ever done that.
 
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kevinbets25

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Under the definition, it is not gambling. The game definitely involves skill, it cannot compare to slots, roulette, etc.
 
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Whether it be poker, sports betting or stock trading,
there is a chance element to the outcome along with statistics, probabilities and an opportunity to improve the odds with information and experience.

They all have a few successful people who regularly do better than the average.
From this group occasionally some get caught out and suffer catastrophic loses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trading_losses
http://www.relativelyinteresting.com/top-ten-biggest-poker-losses/

Yet despite the similarities,
Stock trading is considered a profession,
sports betting is seen as gambling,
and poker has people debating whether it is gambling or not, and whether it is a sport or not, and whether it is a game of luck or skill.

I''ve got to go out now, but I'll take a gamble on not getting struck by lightning whilst I'm out. And yet a storm chaser isn't called a gambler.
 
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