OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Sorry but this is just wrong - it's very possible to lose it all (or at least lose so much that it may as well be everything), even if you follow correct BRM. Suggesting otherwise is irresponsible.
Sorry but this is just wrong - it's very possible to lose it all (or at least lose so much that it may as well be everything), even if you follow correct BRM. Suggesting otherwise is irresponsible.
Iceman2120
Enthusiast
Silver Level
@OzExorcist, i understand what you are saying. Take into account that when i meant BRM it also included living expenses set aside. Now on another note...I have been playing poker as a profession all my life, well since i was a teenager anyway. I was taught the right way to manage your money from the beginning. I have never, i repeat "NEVER" had a what some people call, "a real job", my job has been poker since my dad taught me the game. I do not say these things without merit. I have never been broke, i have been slim on my poker BR, but never on my living expenses. So i guess my reply to your comment is yes it can and has been done. Not only by me but others i know as well.
bz54321
Visionary
Silver Level
I think Vince means you will fail but you don't let that stop you, you get up and try again until you do win.
If you have been playing poker all your life and never gone bust..... Well that's just crazy for me to think about but congrats.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
That's great. But you're still talking about BRM like it's some kind of magic bullet that can prevent everyone from going broke and that's patently untrue.
B
Blown01Cobra
Rock Star
Silver Level
The reason I started this thread was basically because it seems like everyone I talk to has a different opinion on what gambling is and what gambling isn't.
If you talk to a venture capitalist who's made their living on investing in start up companies, they'd probably scoff at the fact that their livelihood is based upon "gambling" and so they'd consider it investing. Ask them how they feel about a professional poker player, and they'd laugh and call it gambling.
Same for stock traders who make their living by day trading. Many consider their trades investments, and yet look at venture capitalists as gamblers betting on start up companies that have no historical data to back up their expectations.
Perhaps it's all a matter of interpretation and perhaps it's all relevant to a person and their experience with poker - positive or negative. But you have to wonder how can people be so "lucky" as to gamble their way to consecutive win after consecutive win if poker is a game of significant luck.
In a lot of ways, if gambling is simply doing something with uncertain results, than nearly every decision we make in life, including stepping into our vehicles for our morning commute would be considered a gamble - but we don't look at it that way because we feel our odds are favorable when it comes to car fatalities.
Or how about a game of basketball? That's a game of skill right, players must have finesse to shoot a ball, physically fit and capable to adapt on the fly to their opposition. But the reality is, there's no guarantee a player will make their shots. The best a coach can do is place players on the court who have certain probabilities at certain positions that are beneficial to the team. There's no guarantee what the opposing team will do, what plays they'll call. Sure there are good basketball teams, but there are also upsets - and just like poker there are those times you can't do anything about a last minute buzzer shot from half court to win the game.
These things happen, but does that change our perspective on basketball as a skill game? No, we just know that we played our best, made the right decisions, and that their half court shot was a miracle - just like a river card that flops a miracle hand.
If I'm trying to imply that I want to change the definition of gambling - then perhaps I am. I'm not saying that I'm capable of doing so, I just feel like calling poker gambling puts it into the same realm as slot machines and other highly unfavorable casino games and gambling - and that gambling has such bad connotations that perhaps it's time to reconsider how we refer to the game.
If you talk to a venture capitalist who's made their living on investing in start up companies, they'd probably scoff at the fact that their livelihood is based upon "gambling" and so they'd consider it investing. Ask them how they feel about a professional poker player, and they'd laugh and call it gambling.
Same for stock traders who make their living by day trading. Many consider their trades investments, and yet look at venture capitalists as gamblers betting on start up companies that have no historical data to back up their expectations.
Perhaps it's all a matter of interpretation and perhaps it's all relevant to a person and their experience with poker - positive or negative. But you have to wonder how can people be so "lucky" as to gamble their way to consecutive win after consecutive win if poker is a game of significant luck.
In a lot of ways, if gambling is simply doing something with uncertain results, than nearly every decision we make in life, including stepping into our vehicles for our morning commute would be considered a gamble - but we don't look at it that way because we feel our odds are favorable when it comes to car fatalities.
Or how about a game of basketball? That's a game of skill right, players must have finesse to shoot a ball, physically fit and capable to adapt on the fly to their opposition. But the reality is, there's no guarantee a player will make their shots. The best a coach can do is place players on the court who have certain probabilities at certain positions that are beneficial to the team. There's no guarantee what the opposing team will do, what plays they'll call. Sure there are good basketball teams, but there are also upsets - and just like poker there are those times you can't do anything about a last minute buzzer shot from half court to win the game.
These things happen, but does that change our perspective on basketball as a skill game? No, we just know that we played our best, made the right decisions, and that their half court shot was a miracle - just like a river card that flops a miracle hand.
If I'm trying to imply that I want to change the definition of gambling - then perhaps I am. I'm not saying that I'm capable of doing so, I just feel like calling poker gambling puts it into the same realm as slot machines and other highly unfavorable casino games and gambling - and that gambling has such bad connotations that perhaps it's time to reconsider how we refer to the game.
bz54321
Visionary
Silver Level
I do some people get hyper tense about driving because it is a gamble.
For the investor thing it’s just a matter of the time it takes to complete a transaction. Or at least that’s the main difference in my mind. The wiki on gambling goes on to say that the outcome is normally decided quickly.
There are things you can control and things you cannot control. Basketball has more things that are within your control than poker but poker has more than slot machines.
You have no control over the hand you get or the cards that come out or if your opponents all call you down every time. It could happen. The best poker player can be beat by the worst but this would never happen in Basketball.
Poker is a dirty game where you try to take some ones money. I don’t think it should be justified. Poker and all gambling sturs up emotions in people it can send you to the moon or slam you into the concrete. Personally I am just not interested in changing people let them feel how they want. I love poker and I love gambling even more. However poker is a game where you can lose based only on luck. Luck is a hug factor. Can you overcome luck in the long run? Yes/maybe. But its way harder than playing Basketball. Stu is supposed to be one of the all time greats but he died broke.
If it goes in your direction only really good players would ever play. And bad players would never win.
So I just don’t know.... Why does it matter what people think of poker?
Enjoyed your post.
B
Blown01Cobra
Rock Star
Silver Level
I suppose it doesn't really matter what people think about poker - I mean, whether they feel it's a good past time or bad past time is their opinion and I'll play either way. I enjoy it. But at the same time, I can't help but feel like poker has such a bad reputation, even for people who play it for entertainment and that bothers me, not only because it affects the assumptions people make about me, but also because these perception that Texas Holdem is gambling, gambling is evil, we must stop gambling at all costs online, etc aren't helping us at making poker more available online and live. Sure there's more to the situation and legality of poker than just the fact that's it's considered gambling by many, but it's that very perception of gambling that makes it that much more difficult to make more accessible. There's a lot of people out there who see poker as evil because it's "gambling", and that's just that many more people in support of keeping it non-accessible.
For instance, from time to time I'll be asked what I like to do for hobbies and I always hesitate to say poker because no sooner do I say that and can I just feel the vibes that they're making some sort of assumption about me. This is no truer than in my church, where if I mention that I like to play Texas Holdem from time to time that it seems like their eyes are glued on mine and that I need to repent for my sins of gambling, and it doesn't even matter if I try to explain how freerolls work and that I'm potentially earning money without risking it. Perhaps that's their problem and not mine, but had I said I like to play some other card game like crazy eights or go fish, I hardly think I'd get the same response (even if I was playing for cash), and I believe it has entirely to do with the way that poker has been portrayed and linked directly to gambling.
If I tell those same people I enjoy working on my Mustang they think that's an amazing hobby, but the reality is that it's a terrible financial hobby. It's ungodly expensive, cars depreciate fast, and no bit of skill on my part is going to change that fact. I've spent thousands upon thousands modifying my car and people ask me "How much have you invested in that engine?" when I go to car shows as though I'm going to see a positive financial return on it - I wish! I've spent a tiny fraction of that on "gambling" playing Texas Holdem, and even made a small profit and yet people still associate it as a negative hobby. Poker is considered evil around where I live, not because it's a card game, but because it's considered gambling and it's frowned upon. Yet going out and drinking on a Friday night around here is considered normal, fun entertainment - am I missing something of why poker is so far worse?
If for no other reason, I care because I'm a person that cares about my reputation at least to some degree, and I'm a bit tired of people always thinking that poker as this negative hold on my life when so many other things are just as dangerous and risky if not put under appropriate control.
I feel like our society has simply lumped poker up with every other high risk casino game. In my mind, there's this spectrum where stock investments are on the white side and slot machines are on the black side, and poker should perhaps fall somewhere in the gray, yet people just lump it over in the black.
Last edited:
Bonghead
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Poker is a sport. It is not gambling but due to the nice laws that we have here in the USA.. casinos merely allow these players to play their game in their facility and charge a small % of what is put into action. Thus giving players a place where all can come together to keep the action going instead of having little or no action at all on the tables. Poker is not the bread and butter of most casinos tho. That would be the slot machines. Now that is a real gamble. Why? You have no control over the outcome. Poker you do. You do not have to bet or call or chase etc.. but slot machines you dont. You just hope you hit. You can not outplay the machine sorry. But you can out play people and poker is the only game in the casino where you are not playing against the casino....
bz54321
Visionary
Silver Level
I dont think its a sport its a mind game, sports are generally physical activities.
People who look down on you because of what you like even though its not causing any harm are not good people. Just don't talk to them. Trying to change people is a pretty futile task.
People who look down on you because of what you like even though its not causing any harm are not good people. Just don't talk to them. Trying to change people is a pretty futile task.
catchitfool
Rock Star
Silver Level
This debate will go on FOREVER...I think it take skills to be sucessful at anything including poker. but is poker a SPORT? i think so. if your a poker pro and go to work there is a good chance you wont even get paid, thats the RISK/GAMBLE you take.
Iceman2120
Enthusiast
Silver Level
You mention Stu Ungar in this post. It is a well known fact the Stu was a very serious drug addict as well as a pure outright gambler who would bet on anything and everything. Had Stu been in control of his life, he may well have still been alive today and been a mutli millionaire. It was his other vices that lead him down his dark path to destruction. He was a genius with a photographic memory, and the worlds best gin players could not beat him. So when you mention Stu Ungar, this would not be, and is not a good example.
sam1chips
Visionary
Silver Level
Here is an article about it from pokernews.com. A New York judge ruled in favor of poker being a game of skill.
http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/...ll-not-illegal-illegal-gambling-act-13275.htm
sam1chips
Visionary
Silver Level
if u ask a pro ( not me ) I think its skill.
When I play with noob friends for fun, yeah they just go all in, they have no skills , that is gambling 100 %
But if they have no skills, and you have played more poker than them, doesn't that support it being a game of skill? If you play against one of your "noob friends" 100 times, do you think that you will win at least 60 or 65?
bz54321
Visionary
Silver Level
Its a little like stealing to play against people with no experience when you have a lot.
I guess you could call it skill.
But if the players are all at relatively the same skill level then it becomes much more of a gamble.
In a cheese game played against some one with no experience and a pro cheese player the pro would win 100 of the games.
However in poker you are still going to lose some of the games because of luck.
Its both a skill and luck based game and it is gambling.
I guess you could call it skill.
But if the players are all at relatively the same skill level then it becomes much more of a gamble.
In a cheese game played against some one with no experience and a pro cheese player the pro would win 100 of the games.
However in poker you are still going to lose some of the games because of luck.
Its both a skill and luck based game and it is gambling.
M
Madness_does
Rock Star
Silver Level
In real life I will say 70% skill 30 % luck, in online poker forget the dam odds they dont exist, its just matter of up to the computer whether you will get donked out or not.
PLAYINBIG
Legend
Silver Level
I think MTT poker is a skill with a little luck sometimes.To me its no different than entering a bass tournament paying $200 entry fee.The best skilled and knowledge bass fishermen or poker players are gonna make the best decisions,use the right bait & catch the biggest /more fish/pots to win the tourney.
R
RamdeeBen
Legend
Silver Level
MTT is poker is probably the game type of poker with the MOST amount of luck involved.
The better players of course make better decisions but you can make all the right decisions and still lose.
CAMurray
CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
There are aspects to playing poker that are a gamble but Poker at its basic level is a sport. I fully expect NLHE and PLO8 to be fully sanctioned, Metaled, Olympic Events in 2016.
The Question is, Who Would You Want Representing Your Country At The Tables?
The Question is, Who Would You Want Representing Your Country At The Tables?