I am just posting this thread to discuss mathmatical players. I am reading in all these posts about raise the preflop 3x, 4x, or 7x. Let me tell you one thing. If I sit at a game that is NL and blinds are .5 and 1, I will call a 7x bet with KQs, 7 dollars is not alot of money to me. You can say what you want about 7x or 4x the bb bet, but it all comes down to relative money. I dont make a ton of money but I can lose almost 500 a month at poker and it will not change my lifestyle. So, just because to raise 4x the BB, that doesnt mean anything. If somone thinks their hand is worth 3x,4x or 7x. then they will call. This shows that raising by what some book tells you to, isnt worth its weight in gold. Hence, I will fold 22 for 4x the BB but I would probably call for 7x the BB (and depending on the raiser). My 22 will get paid more for hitting on a hand that is raised more, I wont go all in preflop with them, but I will play them in bigger hands and muck them in rather small pots.... And I dont make my raises by 4x or 7x, I raise when I think i will or will not get a caller. I try to raise as much as possible to achieve what I am trying to achieve... what do you think????