Official Absolute scandal thread

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mwciowa

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cheaters are out there, beware.
 
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kronik22

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most people complain about bad beats but this sounds legite 2 me
 
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luckygolft

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Its was a inside job, not the actually site, but someone inside. Someone one who knows the software.
 
nevadanick

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I wonder about all the sites I play on!!!

Throughout history, gambling of any kind has been a magnet for cheaters. Even though many of the sites do a lot to eliminate cheating, it just cannot be possible to make every site 100% cheat free.

Take a site like pokerstars (and it's my personal belief they are one of the sites spending more than the others on security). They claim over 9 million members. We can't all be foolish enough to believe that there are NO cheaters among those 9 million members.

The one area that really concerns me is the single table games, SnG and cash ring. In a different forum recently one member was describing how his fellow college students gather with their laptops to get on the same table for collusion. Makes it about a 50% superuser account with no way to detect the cheats. They are using this method to pay for their college costs or party life.

The second area of concern is nearly the same collusion. With cell phones, IM and online chat, collusion between numerous players could also be virtually undetectable.

Whether cheaters are sophisticated or crude, they often get caught, but never stops the others from trying. Even if you play live tables, you are still subject to house shills, card markers, collusion artists, etc.

I've seen a lot of forum posters say they are not worried about cheaters being at their FR or micro-limit tables. They are everywhere. It's only the difference between a bank robber and a petty thief who pockets a pack of gum at the grocery store. They are both thieves. On another forum that holds FR's, there are constantly FR entries that have quite obvious indications of multiple accounts and these are freerolls which do pay cash prizes. Small ones, but still cash. These multiple account users cannot just be using them for one forum's freerolls, can they?

Bottom line is - if you gamble, beware. It's ALL part of the gamble.
 
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zidane121277

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ONLINE POKER

Been playing on party poker, pokerstars, and full tilt for 3 years.
and I am a winner my ROI is 25%.
I am also a computer programmer.
Every online site is 100% fixxed.
5 community cards all all 3 sites have ace high or better 95% of the time.
Action cards bring in more bets and more rakes.
If you watch on every site the flops are always pairing or hitting an ace.
They also control how much you win and how much you lose.
There is a reason why pokerstars only allows one account per computer.
Sign up a new account on any site and get great cards. They want to make sure they keep you as a customer. Ive cashout over 40times on pokerstars alone. After every cashout and I mean every cashout I tilt. Trash the site and you will never finish in the money again with the user account. I have multiple accounts on multiple sites when their new I win when they old you lose. Also the amount of site bots sitting at the table working off unlimited bankrolls from the site they just take your money.
You can make money online I do, (not much) but after 3 years you see patterns. Deal yourself out five cards see how often you hit a pair. Now go look online and watch the 5 community cards on any site and watch how amazing those 5 cards are 95 % of the time. I played 8 hours a day almost 7 days a week for 3 years. There is no one regulating these sites, and no one can stop them from taking as much money as they want. There should be all shiut down and thrown in jail. Not to mention all the sports channels and pro players who attached their names to these very very dishonest companies. I still play for pennies cause I got nothing better to do and I cant leave the house but anyone who says these sites are not fixed or rigged to bring in more rakes must have been dropped on their head when they were born , or they are employee's , family, friends, co owenrs of one of the sites. Anyone who plays poker knows 5 community cards dont hit an ace or pair 95 % of the time. This is by fay the most obvious part of these sites fixxing. Not to mention sign up multiple accounts and watch your luck change. They control the cards and they control your bankroll. Pokerstars, Party Poker, Absoulte, Full Tilt, are all run by men who range in the age of 20 -40 and and greedy as hell.
 
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Monoxide

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hi not possible.

that story above is so retarded i hope its a joke lol

and if its a joke you pwn
 
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zidane121277

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No Joke , login into poker stars , everytime you see 5 cards on the table write them down. You will be really surprised when you see how many times those 5 cards pair or at least hit ace high, almost 95% of the time. Party Poker Flops are insane aak, kka, 44a, 55a, aa4, kk3, partypoker is the most obvious their community cards pair more than they dont.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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blah blah rigged blah blah

please don't pollute a serious thread with this crap, thanks. there are plenty of threads where conspiracists such as yourself can unite and share your 'observations'.

on topic: the 'findings' from the Absolute 'audit' are due today apparently.
 
mendozaline

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Too legit to quit

Dorkus, I think zidane is right. This whole online poker thing is starting to seem phonier than a three dollar bill. Full Tilt is way up there on the phony list.

I agree with his (zidane's) reasoning totally. The number of insane things pounding us on a daily basis is enough to convince anyone. Let me give you a little example from Full Tilt.

Every night at 12 Midnight Eastern Time they have the Midnight Madness tournament. There's a good size prize pool, and if you come in first or second in a satellite, it only costs you $3 to play. I've done it many times. The buy-in without the satellite is $10.

Watch it this week. At 10 minutes to start there will be about 250 entries. The tournament has 216 payouts. Two minutes before it starts there might be 500 entries. And then at start time there are 1500. Hunh? Check it out for yourself. All day long 216 entries and then in the last 2 minutes it fills 1500. Oh, I know, they're all sitting there waiting to the last minute to register. Ok.

Then during the first few rounds, try talking to the bots. Maybe you might get one or two real people who answer you, but you'll never get all of them to.

But here's the point, and zidane is right on the money. Sooner or later you'll get some insane group of community cards to knock you out on a hand that wins 9 times out of 10 at a freeroll or a simple one table sit n go, (say $10 buy-in).

They're getting subtle too, but I'm sure their developers have plenty of features to implement.

Here's a good one. You get A9s, there are a couple of small bets, three players remain, the flop is AK6 rainbow, and it's back to you. Now, you make a judgement call. You could be right or wrong, but you reason that nobody has AK, AQ, AJ or A10, or AA, or KK, and that unless someone has pocket 66s you have the best hand.

He has pocket 66.

If that happens to you once, you figure, "hey, good call on my part." If it happens to you twice, you figure, "wow that's odd, what are the chances of that?" By the third time you've switched to "what the f__k?!" By the fourth time, it's, "oh ok, I see, this is like the slot machine that used to be paying, but doesn't pay anymore."

You see the thing that they have working against them, is that there are too many people out here like zidane and myself that worked in software groups, or made software ourselves. Some things are obvious.

No, I think Zidane was right on the money with his observations, and that we have to be real careful about thinking this whole online poker thing is legit.

What, you think Absolute just happen to get caught and that's the only time it happened? Ha!


==================================
"In New Jersery everything's legal as long as you don't get caught." Bob Dylan
 
vanquish

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Any time someone brings up a hand history in a discussion about poker being rigged, whatever they say automatically becomes non-credible. Seriously, you never see anyone saying "I called a raise preflop with 66 and the flop came 335, villain went all-in and I called, he had A5, and my 66 held and I won a huge pot." Please keep your bad beat stories to the appropriate forum.
 
mendozaline

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Any time someone brings up a hand history in a discussion about poker being rigged, whatever they say automatically becomes non-credible. Seriously, you never see anyone saying "I called a raise preflop with 66 and the flop came 335, villain went all-in and I called, he had A5, and my 66 held and I won a huge pot." Please keep your bad beat stories to the appropriate forum.
The flop didn't come 335 it came AK6. That's the first point. Secondly, who died and left you boss? I was very careful in phrasing my story to meet the requirements of the thread and Dorkus's direction. There's a subtlety here and if anyone can't grasp it, or disagrees with it, that's one thing, but don't tell me what to keep where. I think these things out carefully before I post them.
 
B

bobbo

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I havent played there for a long while, I'm pretty glad now. Theres probably the same thing going on at every site though.
 
mendozaline

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The bigger question

What the Absolute Scandal showed us is that exactly what everybody was worried might happen, did happen.

When I first started playing online poker, I immediately started ticking off all the things that could be wrong. I didn't have any knowledge of anything being wrong, I simply approached it from a cautious stance. For instance, if you walk into a casino and plunk money down on a game there, it's logical to assume that the odds are against you.

I approached online poker the same way. My first thought was that I'm up against a casino, and by definition I'm going to lose. However, I also knew from experience that there would be periods where I was winning, and if I could indentify those, I had a fighting chance of winning long term. It's the same thing with the stock market, with the difference that the stock market is a little more legitimate. {A famous trader from the 50s by the name of Nicholas Darvas named his second famous book: "Wall Street, the Other Las Vegas."}

I also considered the fact that it's really in their best interest to make online poker legitimate. Nobody likes a welcher or a card cheat, so I figured sooner or later it's definitely going to be totally legitimate and honest.

On the other hand, I had to be realistic. Jesse Livermore, the greatest trader of all time, used to say, "don't be a sucker." That's it. Don't be a sucker. So, what could go wrong? What could be happening that would make me the sucker?

Well for one thing, in the early stages of development, they probably made accounts that would allow the observer to see the hole cards of all the players. Why would they do that? Because they can. And because someone testing the software would say, "let me see all the cards while I'm testing."

I had this conversation many times over six months ago, with various friends and colleagues of mine. So when the Absolute Poker scandal broke, my phone rang, "wow, that's exactly what you were saying."

The reason why I'm writing this is because I think there are other shoes yet to drop. My guess is that Ultimatebet is probably the most legitimate site out there, and that sites like Full Tilt are the norm and have a day of reckoning coming to them.

But it could be something as simple as the fact that the new RNGs are having things occur that nobody ever anticipated. An "unintended consequence."

We'll see.
 
hunterT1000

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Completely lost track of this a while back. What was the final outcome?
 
Egon Towst

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My guess is that Ultimatebet is probably the most legitimate site out there,

I`m not sure that follows, given that UB and Absolute are now sister companies.
 
mendozaline

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I`m not sure that follows, given that Ultimatebet and Absolute are now sister companies.
I can think of one possible interpretation of that, but maybe it's best left unsaid.

What I can say it that I never got 83o 4 times in a row on Ultimatebet. :icon_sant
 
bustermoves

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something along this line happened several years ago at poker room.com.think it was called ace of aces tourney.any way,some guy was playing multiple accounts.some how the other players found out what he was doing,yada,yada.was turned over to poker room staff.said they could see know evidence of collusion.anyway,when this happened people started cashing out in droves.i dont even know if there a site anymore.never see or hear about them,in any fourm.maybe someone knows this story better than me ,and can clarify it.
 
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SBuccaner

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Thank you, for all your time you all put in on my question
 
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caaq

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hmmm?

It makes me wonder if all the sites are rigged or not?
 
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HOMER304

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I was playing a freeroll one time on absolute and i dont recall all the cards but i clearly had the guy beat with a full boat i was all in cards flipped up and i could see i had him beat. he took all my chips???? when i checked the replay they had all the cards diffrent from what we just played and him the winner!! I emailed them and they replied that there software has been checked out and is has no problems they had no explanation.I was right near the final table also.
 
mendozaline

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The software was made that way.

I re-read alot of this thread because I wasn't paying attention when the thread first started. I would like to give you a little insight into what happened here.

Some posters have speculated that the "software was hacked" or "security was breached" or "some spyware was installed" etc. etc.

Let's make one thing clear, in case it still isn't clear. The software at Absolute Poker was made (yes made) with the ability for superusers to login and play with the hole cards visible. Nothing was hacked!!!

What does that mean? What is a "superuser"? Well what it means is that during the early development stages of the client software (that we use when we play at Ab), the development team made it possible (i.e. "built into" the software) the ability for anyone with the knowledge of how to login under superuser privledges, that they would see the hole cards as they played. It's as simple as that. Did they do it to build in the ability to cheat the client base? Probably not. Mostly it's just for QC and test purposes.

Ok, so what is a superuser? A superuser is just someone who has those login rights and privledges, and who has a reason to login as such. Some examples of superusers would be the developers themselves, the high level QA team, some applications guys, some marketing guys, upper management if they wanted to see it function that way.

I was a superuser on every single product line I ever worked on, that's how I know this. It gave us access to things like system parameters, recipe creation, modification and deletion rights. All the kinds of things that you don't want Joe Blow out on the manufacturing floor to mess with were reserved for the superuser access accounts.

It's as simple as that. And I'm here to tell you that Ultimatebet has them, Pokerstars has them bodog has them (and X, Y and Z has them).

We just have to hope no one else is using them. Either that, or go back to freerolls.
 
mendozaline

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Another view of "Bots"

While I'm thinking along these lines of how the software was built in the first place, here's another little tidbit.

Imagine in the early days of development, if they wanted to see how a tournament played out, to test all the table switching and the like. Don't you think they would build in "fake players" (i.e., "software simulations" of people or........how do you sayyyyy?........"Bot") so that they could watch the tournaments unfold before they had enough real people to play them?

Hmmmm. Now I wonder what they did with that part of the software? Hmmm. I wonder what rules they would have implemented for the Bots to make decisions on? Hmmm. Maybe they were pretty simple, because they really only wanted to test table switching. Hmmm, but suppose maybe someone wanted at least one developer to explore makiing the Bots good enough to beat the your average Joe. Maybe they needed to be able to fill tables (tournaments) that didn't have enough real people. Hmmm, now what else may they have done?

I got a kick out of the Full Tilt Bot scandal when everyone was speculating about how the Bots "infiltrated" Full Tilt. Ah, you gotta love it.

There are other things, too. About three other avenues of things that might make it harder for us to win consistently, which along with Bots and Hole card viewing makes it about five things, I would estimate.

And the RNG isn't one of them. That's a red-herring, as is the whole notion of "Donks" winniing too many hands. That one is really laughable.
 
mendozaline

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Let's play "The Donk who gets the Good Beat"

I got so sick of folding 85 only to see 885 flop that last night I decided, hey let me try playing an 85 or two.

Here's my first try last night.

{Note: Before anyone complains that this post doesn't belong on this this thread, stop and think about that for a second. I submit to you that not only does this post belong, it is highly relevant to the subject at hand:deal: }

****************************************
full tilt poker Game #4581697807: $3 + $0.30 KO Sit & Go (34740754), Table 6 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:40:09 ET - 2007/12/21
Seat 2: uh2k (6,420)
Seat 3: Will BetMoore (2,500)
Seat 4: torhouse (4,440)
Seat 5: Wodkatrinker (2,760)
Seat 6: D1GG3R (6,060)
Seat 7: sbyrne1 (830)
Seat 8: mendoza200 (4,500)
Seat 9: JohnyMike (4,390)
uh2k posts the small blind of 25
Will BetMoore posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mendoza200 [8s 5s]
torhouse calls 50
Wodkatrinker calls 50
D1GG3R calls 50
sbyrne1 calls 50
mendoza200 raises to 100
JohnyMike has 15 seconds left to act
JohnyMike calls 100
uh2k folds
Will BetMoore folds
torhouse calls 50
Wodkatrinker calls 50
D1GG3R calls 50
sbyrne1 raises to 830, and is all in
mendoza200 calls 730
JohnyMike folds
torhouse calls 730
Wodkatrinker calls 730
D1GG3R folds
*** FLOP *** [3h 6c 7c]
torhouse checks
Wodkatrinker checks
mendoza200 has 15 seconds left to act
mendoza200 bets 1,250
torhouse has 15 seconds left to act
torhouse folds
Wodkatrinker folds
mendoza200 shows [8s 5s]
sbyrne1 shows [Js Ts]
torhouse: 22
Uncalled bet of 1,250 returned to mendoza200
*** TURN *** [3h 6c 7c] 4♦
*** RIVER *** [3h 6c 7c 4d] 9♥
mendoza200 shows a straight, Nine high
sbyrne1 shows Jack Ten high
mendoza200 wins the pot (3,595) with a straight, Nine high
sbyrne1 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,595 | Rake 0
Board: [3h 6c 7c 4d 9h]
Seat 2: uh2k (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Will BetMoore (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: torhouse folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Wodkatrinker folded on the Flop
Seat 6: D1GG3R folded before the Flop
Seat 7: sbyrne1 showed [Js Ts] and lost with Jack Ten high
Seat 8: mendoza200 showed [8s 5s] and won (3,595) with a straight, Nine high
Seat 9: JohnyMike (button) folded before the Flop
 
nevadanick

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In other words - we now have a verifiable, reliable and representative sampling that will assure us a win every time we play out our 8,5o's. Awesome, to say the least. Can't wait to play.... :D
 
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