JusSumguy
Chipmonger
Silver Level
pokerstars has an option to place your cards down until you roll over them. I use this.
Carbon allows you to click on the cards and they turn over till you want to see them. Just takes locating your mouse, look away for a sec (the TV works
) and when you hear the deal, click.
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Carbon allows you to click on the cards and they turn over till you want to see them. Just takes locating your mouse, look away for a sec (the TV works
) and when you hear the deal, click.-
M
Marsd
Rock Star
Silver Level
I have also gone both ways with this-- I do think its easier to watch what other people are doing first and then look at your hand, but I dont think its really a big deal either way. Unless you're the kind of person giving off tells really easily in which case why are you playing live poker anyways?
woodsy44
Rock Star
Silver Level
Pokerstars has an option to place your cards down until you roll over them. I use this.
Carbon allows you to click on the cards and they turn over till you want to see them. Just takes locating your mouse, look away for a sec (the TV works
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Just does this on stars now. great idea!
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rugby0
Visionary
Silver Level
I try not to look at my cards until it is my turn.. There is one thing that helps me in a live game. Just before i look at my cards I look to my left. At times you can identify how many players are ready to fold behind you. This information may alter your play.
rock0001
Legend
Bronze Level
i dont really think its a big deal to watch your cards until its your turn to play.
tells are very difficult because even if someone gets aces, he wont show happiness and if, other player gets a bad hand preflop no matter what tells you can perceive they will just fold the hand.
tells are very difficult because even if someone gets aces, he wont show happiness and if, other player gets a bad hand preflop no matter what tells you can perceive they will just fold the hand.
JusSumguy
Chipmonger
Silver Level
JusSumguy
Chipmonger
Silver Level
Now see, If a guy like me saw this trait in you, I would be driving you crazy... on purpose too.
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MediaBLITZ
Legend
Silver Level
If you get the out of breath need for a big breath, figure out how to deal with that. --> Ohhhhmmmmmmmm.
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Not entirely, but I have beaten it by taking that deep breath as my last action before actually looking at my cards.
J
jj20002
Visionary
Silver Level
you can cheat on the oponents in this way
i always think that the moment where other player can catch some information from your gestures is when see the cards,
so it´s very smart to no let the opponents know when you see them, so for instance you can make as if you are sneak a peak but actually you don´t see any,
and then later you see again and this tim you see what you have that way for your opponents is harder to read you
so very interesting approach and furthermore, what he says also is true regarding the fact when you are dealt a garbish, then you don´t pay attention of the game, but when something in he limits you are very sensitive of what´s hapening in the table
i always think that the moment where other player can catch some information from your gestures is when see the cards,
so it´s very smart to no let the opponents know when you see them, so for instance you can make as if you are sneak a peak but actually you don´t see any,
and then later you see again and this tim you see what you have that way for your opponents is harder to read you
so very interesting approach and furthermore, what he says also is true regarding the fact when you are dealt a garbish, then you don´t pay attention of the game, but when something in he limits you are very sensitive of what´s hapening in the table
IntenseHeat
Legend
Bronze Level
It seems like when people think about tells the only thing that all they are thinking about is a player giving up the strength of their hand. There is other information that players should be looking for and putting to use. Some may think that it's best to look at your cards early while no one is paying attention to them. While I don't disagree that the time a player is most likely to give away information about the strength of their hands is when they first look at it, I also feel like this is the time when players will be most guarded. By no means is this the only opportunity to gather useful information. While players may be careful to not to react when looking at their cards, once they are done looking they may relax and let their guard down.
The thing about a tell is that players are usually unconscious of them. If it was something that they were conscious of doing, then they would probably just not do it. They may give something away in their body language, or the placement of their cards or any number of small gestures. It might be something like a player capping his cards when he intends to play, but not doing so when he sees a hand he intends to fold. I might notice that the guy who has been constantly shuffling his chips, suddenly stopped after checking his cards. Sometimes I notice a player suddenly goes still and fixes their eyes on a one spot as if trying not to give something away, which tells me there is something to give away. And that is enough to start with. Sometimes a player may look very relaxed, but give the distinct impression that you would have to cut a finger off to get them to take their hand off their cards. Players who are worried about keeping the game moving are often so concerned about expediting the game that they position their cards so that they have a straight shot back to the dealer as soon as action reaches them. The guy who's sitting straight up, leaning slightly forward intent on the action, that just finished eyeing everyone else at the table's stacks has probably got a hand. The guy leaning back in his chair that seems more concerned about the location of a waitress than the action at the table, not so much.
One thing that I always take note of is which players habitually look at their cards as soon as they are dealt. When action is on me, the last thing I do before I look at my own cards is to look around the table at those players to see if I can pick up any information. Of course I'm not going to be able to put players on exact hands, or even know for sure how strong each player's hand is. How many players can do that? But I might see something that tells me that a player is likely to play their hand. I know all eyes will be on me when I look, but as I said, this is the time when most players will be most guarded. So, if I can manage to maintain even a little bit of composure I'm probably going to be okay.
And here's something else that people seem to overlook. We are all going to give away some information about our hands. When action is on us, we are going to have to act. If we don't like our hand everyone will know when we fold. If we do like it, they will know when we reach for chips. The thing is not to give that information away early. You don't want me to be UTG +1 looking across the table knowing I have one fold in front of me, two players who's body language indicates that they are extremely likely to play their hands, two others who's body language tells me that they are likely to fold, and a player in the BB who likes to defend. This is information I can use to determine whether or not I will play the cards that have been dealt to me, whether or not I raise, and if I do how much. I might decide that the hand is playable but, not worth the raise that I would have to make to try to get it around the table and past the two players that seem really intent on playing without too many callers. If one or both of them call then the BB will probably feel priced in to call with anything halfway decent. Not to mention that there are three players that I have no idea what they might do, or what kind of hands they might have. One of them just isn't giving anything away. There isn't anything for the other two to give away, because they haven't looked at their hands yet. Again, all eyes will be on them when they look. So if they do anything that indicates whether or not they like their hand or intend to play it, like folding or reaching for chips, everyone will instantly know. But since action is going to be on them, that cat is about to come out of the bag anyway. But by then it will be too late to affect my decision, because I will have already acted. That's the nature of the game. The players that act later will have more information than the players that act early, that is unless they do something to that gives that information away ahead of time.
Do what works for you. Play the way you play. As for me, I prefer not to look at my cards until it's my turn to act. I feel fairly confident about my ability to look at my cards and call, raise or fold without giving any other information away. I'm not as confident in my ability maintain 100% discipline at all times without ever slipping. It would be arrogant of me to think that I could. But I do know with absolute certainty that I can't give away information that I don't have. I don't know why that doesn't make sense to more people.
The thing about a tell is that players are usually unconscious of them. If it was something that they were conscious of doing, then they would probably just not do it. They may give something away in their body language, or the placement of their cards or any number of small gestures. It might be something like a player capping his cards when he intends to play, but not doing so when he sees a hand he intends to fold. I might notice that the guy who has been constantly shuffling his chips, suddenly stopped after checking his cards. Sometimes I notice a player suddenly goes still and fixes their eyes on a one spot as if trying not to give something away, which tells me there is something to give away. And that is enough to start with. Sometimes a player may look very relaxed, but give the distinct impression that you would have to cut a finger off to get them to take their hand off their cards. Players who are worried about keeping the game moving are often so concerned about expediting the game that they position their cards so that they have a straight shot back to the dealer as soon as action reaches them. The guy who's sitting straight up, leaning slightly forward intent on the action, that just finished eyeing everyone else at the table's stacks has probably got a hand. The guy leaning back in his chair that seems more concerned about the location of a waitress than the action at the table, not so much.
One thing that I always take note of is which players habitually look at their cards as soon as they are dealt. When action is on me, the last thing I do before I look at my own cards is to look around the table at those players to see if I can pick up any information. Of course I'm not going to be able to put players on exact hands, or even know for sure how strong each player's hand is. How many players can do that? But I might see something that tells me that a player is likely to play their hand. I know all eyes will be on me when I look, but as I said, this is the time when most players will be most guarded. So, if I can manage to maintain even a little bit of composure I'm probably going to be okay.
And here's something else that people seem to overlook. We are all going to give away some information about our hands. When action is on us, we are going to have to act. If we don't like our hand everyone will know when we fold. If we do like it, they will know when we reach for chips. The thing is not to give that information away early. You don't want me to be UTG +1 looking across the table knowing I have one fold in front of me, two players who's body language indicates that they are extremely likely to play their hands, two others who's body language tells me that they are likely to fold, and a player in the BB who likes to defend. This is information I can use to determine whether or not I will play the cards that have been dealt to me, whether or not I raise, and if I do how much. I might decide that the hand is playable but, not worth the raise that I would have to make to try to get it around the table and past the two players that seem really intent on playing without too many callers. If one or both of them call then the BB will probably feel priced in to call with anything halfway decent. Not to mention that there are three players that I have no idea what they might do, or what kind of hands they might have. One of them just isn't giving anything away. There isn't anything for the other two to give away, because they haven't looked at their hands yet. Again, all eyes will be on them when they look. So if they do anything that indicates whether or not they like their hand or intend to play it, like folding or reaching for chips, everyone will instantly know. But since action is going to be on them, that cat is about to come out of the bag anyway. But by then it will be too late to affect my decision, because I will have already acted. That's the nature of the game. The players that act later will have more information than the players that act early, that is unless they do something to that gives that information away ahead of time.
Do what works for you. Play the way you play. As for me, I prefer not to look at my cards until it's my turn to act. I feel fairly confident about my ability to look at my cards and call, raise or fold without giving any other information away. I'm not as confident in my ability maintain 100% discipline at all times without ever slipping. It would be arrogant of me to think that I could. But I do know with absolute certainty that I can't give away information that I don't have. I don't know why that doesn't make sense to more people.
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blakewyte
Rock Star
Silver Level
I confess that I'm guilty of quickly looking at my cards and if they're something I don't play and wouldn't play, I'm quick to just muck it. Later on, I'm told it becomes quite telling and when i have good cards and want to play, I'm not able to extract any value because everyone knows my image (tight as a rusted nail) and my range and they'll be more than happy to let go their cards.
Now I won't wait till it's my turn before I see my cards. I wait to watch the actions of the players whom I've identified as being loose or aggressive etc to see what they'll do. Maybe sneak a peek, memorize and then go back to watching how everyone else reacts.
Maybe you can read this next time you're at a live game ;p
Cardschat Guide to Bluffing
Now I won't wait till it's my turn before I see my cards. I wait to watch the actions of the players whom I've identified as being loose or aggressive etc to see what they'll do. Maybe sneak a peek, memorize and then go back to watching how everyone else reacts.
Maybe you can read this next time you're at a live game ;p
Cardschat Guide to Bluffing
wanderingthehall
Rock Star
Silver Level
I personally don't wait to look at my cards. I'm still only playing in low stakes games and I don't think it's important at those levels. Since I play so much online, I'm used to playing fast, and I don't need any time to have an idea of what I will do with those cards. However, I do pay attention to the players that wait to look at their cards. This tells me that they've spend time studying the game, and usually that makes their style of play easier to predict. I can narrow down their hand ranges better and can usually bluff them easier when I pick my spots correctly. I'm also hoping that they notice that I don't look at my cards, because then it will be easier for them to underestimate my ability.
As someone else mentioned another tell is that when someone's hand is shaking it is a massive tell. This is very true and something that I will on rare occasion throw in when I am trying to pull off a bluff on someone that has waited to look at his cards.
Also, I know that once you look at your cards, you should put them down and not look at them again. However I have a very bad memory, so I will constantly re-check them out of habit even if I'm not on a draw. I hope that also misleads my opponents.
As someone else mentioned another tell is that when someone's hand is shaking it is a massive tell. This is very true and something that I will on rare occasion throw in when I am trying to pull off a bluff on someone that has waited to look at his cards
. Also, I know that once you look at your cards, you should put them down and not look at them again. However I have a very bad memory, so I will constantly re-check them out of habit even if I'm not on a draw. I hope that also misleads my opponents.
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Tiltt2424
Enthusiast
Silver Level
You can pick up tells on people when they don't know you are looking at them. They are most vulnerable when they are looking down at their cards so I think waiting to look at your own gives you an awesome opportunity to pick up tells on your opponents, while also keeping you interested in the action ahead. Remember: Your holding should be one of the last things you consider when making a decision
O
OMGjustinBIEBS
Enthusiast
Silver Level
This is why online players are better than live players. Online u cannot act out of turn making u pay more attention to the game. Any Ayer that looks at his cards out of turn when playing live is a fish cake udon noodle soup
Z
zingbust
Rock Star
Silver Level
I don't play that much live even though I live in Vegas. One of the reasons is that I'm not very good at picking up tells on others and I probably give away too many tells myself. When I do play live, having looked at the advice in Navarro's book, taken into consideration what Caro said, and read the forums, then, usually, the first time I make a decision based on a tell I think I've picked up, the tell is dead wrong, I make a bad decision, and then I lose.
If I have any strengths at all in regards to tells, I think it is that sometimes I'm capable of giving off a false tell.
If I have any strengths at all in regards to tells, I think it is that sometimes I'm capable of giving off a false tell.
Grossberger
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
98% of the time I wait til it's my turn to look at my cards. The other 2% is usually because I have to use the restroom or need to get something to drink. I am a big believer in tells, so many times I have picked up on something and just knew they had the hand or not.
I can almost gurantee that if your playing live 99.9% of the time there is not someone giving you "false" tells, most people just don't think about it that much and in the same way I don't think 99% of the people pay attention to other peoples tells. I have tried to give off false tells many times but other players just don't know enough to know its a tell.
I have found if you wait to look at your cards and observe the people behind you, you can use that information to your advantage, because most times if they look at their cards right away you can tell if they are going to play their hand or not. With this information if you have 5 people to act behind you and you notice 4 of them are ready to fold their hand you may be able to raise in this position because your pretty sure you only have 1 player to act behind you not 5, which is like being on the button preflop.
Here are some examples that I have picked up while playing that have helped me win some big pots in both cash and tournaments.
1. In a tournament I'm in the cutoff with 44 I raise 2.5x player on button looks at his cards and then immediatly looks at my chip stack, then reraises 3x my bet. I have seen him do this before and its always a big Ace, so I call flop comes K 9 2 rainbow, I check and he bets 1/2 pot I call hoping to hit on the turn, turn comes 2, I check he checks, now he usually would not check if he had a K here so I'm pretty sure I have the best hand right now. The river comes another K I bet out 1/2 pot bet and he says raise, and proceeds to pull off his stack t9500 as he goes to put it in he balks and adds another t4000 to it then puts in the raise. Now I stopped to think why would he balk and add more chips? I came to the conclusion that he didn't think the 9500 was enough to get me to fold because he didn't have the hand, I called and wait for him to roll over AQ and I roll over the 44 to win the pot. 2 things I observed on that hand allowed me to win a big pot.
2. This one is one of the times I wished I didn't pay attention. Playing in a tournament, I'm in Hijack with Q 10 suited 3 limpers ahead and I see the players behind me are all ready to fold so I limp. 4 players to the flop of Q 9 10. First player checks and next player goes all in next player tanks and folds now I'm paying attention to a newer player I have never played with before and she has put aside a call and is adding to it for a raise, seeing this I think she flopped the straight or a set, so I reluctantly fold my top 2. She says raise and we were like its just you 2 he doesn't have any more chips so you just call. She rolls over.......ready for this AK all she has is over pair and gut shot and bricks turn and river and all in stays in with 77. Had I not seen her grabbing for a raise I would have called and taken down a big pot, now I have played with her before and know more of how she plays, and can take chips from her at will.
I can almost gurantee that if your playing live 99.9% of the time there is not someone giving you "false" tells, most people just don't think about it that much and in the same way I don't think 99% of the people pay attention to other peoples tells. I have tried to give off false tells many times but other players just don't know enough to know its a tell.
I have found if you wait to look at your cards and observe the people behind you, you can use that information to your advantage, because most times if they look at their cards right away you can tell if they are going to play their hand or not. With this information if you have 5 people to act behind you and you notice 4 of them are ready to fold their hand you may be able to raise in this position because your pretty sure you only have 1 player to act behind you not 5, which is like being on the button preflop.
Here are some examples that I have picked up while playing that have helped me win some big pots in both cash and tournaments.
1. In a tournament I'm in the cutoff with 44 I raise 2.5x player on button looks at his cards and then immediatly looks at my chip stack, then reraises 3x my bet. I have seen him do this before and its always a big Ace, so I call flop comes K 9 2 rainbow, I check and he bets 1/2 pot I call hoping to hit on the turn, turn comes 2, I check he checks, now he usually would not check if he had a K here so I'm pretty sure I have the best hand right now. The river comes another K I bet out 1/2 pot bet and he says raise, and proceeds to pull off his stack t9500 as he goes to put it in he balks and adds another t4000 to it then puts in the raise. Now I stopped to think why would he balk and add more chips? I came to the conclusion that he didn't think the 9500 was enough to get me to fold because he didn't have the hand, I called and wait for him to roll over AQ and I roll over the 44 to win the pot. 2 things I observed on that hand allowed me to win a big pot.
2. This one is one of the times I wished I didn't pay attention. Playing in a tournament, I'm in Hijack with Q 10 suited 3 limpers ahead and I see the players behind me are all ready to fold so I limp. 4 players to the flop of Q 9 10. First player checks and next player goes all in next player tanks and folds now I'm paying attention to a newer player I have never played with before and she has put aside a call and is adding to it for a raise, seeing this I think she flopped the straight or a set, so I reluctantly fold my top 2. She says raise and we were like its just you 2 he doesn't have any more chips so you just call. She rolls over.......ready for this AK all she has is over pair and gut shot and bricks turn and river and all in stays in with 77. Had I not seen her grabbing for a raise I would have called and taken down a big pot, now I have played with her before and know more of how she plays, and can take chips from her at will.
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
Same here, but I have rarely found it to be more than moderately useful. Maybe I just suck at picking up tells.
D
dasher
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I can see professionals getting away with the delay, but I play low stakes and the other players will give you a hard time if you are slowing the game down by waiting to look at your cards until it's your turn to act. They like a good pace.
I try to watch the two players on my left. I figure those are the ones that would impact my play the most if I knew they had something. Players who have to act before me have to give information with their bets.
I try to watch the two players on my left. I figure those are the ones that would impact my play the most if I knew they had something. Players who have to act before me have to give information with their bets.
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hffjd2000
Legend
Silver Level
I read likewise the Little Green Book. Nice book, nice advice. But you have to mix your moves and not always do the move all the time. Your opponent is watching you and they might get tells from you. Example-after seeing your cards, they will see any expression/tells since they know you just seen your cards for the very first time. Try to mix it up, by seeing the cards immediately after it dealt to you. With that, players will somehow be confused especially so that poker tells are crucial at live tourneys.
Goodluck sir!!!
Goodluck sir!!!