Not looking at your cards until it's your turn to act...

[RamdeeBen]

Is it me or does this sound like a very fishy thing to do and not something a pro should do by all means and most defiantly something he SHOULD of conquered by now? If anything, I find more pros look at their cards first and don't give of tells like that. Phil Gordon though...very strange and fishy. "I'm interested in the hand IF I have Aces, otherwise I will drift in to space" so if I do either of those things and look at my cards as soon as I'm dealt the cards, you can most defiantly assign me a good/bad range.

This depends on your character of person in general. For him, it works because he gives us blatant signs of if he has a good hand or not

ie: Being interested in the hand or not.

I'm unsure as to why he gives it as advice to other players, as this seems very player dependant not grounds for every player.

For example, me on the other hand, I'm quite sure I have the same expression regardless. If you are uninterested in a hand being played out live, when you are uninterested in your actual hand, then I'm unsure as to why he is at the table to start with. He seems to get bored very quickly.

I find every hand of interest, more so in fact when I'm not involved.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

Is it me or does this sound like a very fishy thing to do and not something a pro should do by all means and most defiantly something he SHOULD of conquered by now? If anything, I find more pros look at their cards first and don't give of tells like that. Phil Gordon though...very strange and fishy. "I'm interested in the hand IF I have Aces, otherwise I will drift in to space" so if I do either of those things and look at my cards as soon as I'm dealt the cards, you can most defiantly assign me a good/bad range.
This depends on your character of person in general. For him, it works because he gives us blatant signs of if he has a good hand or not
ie: Being interested in the hand or not.
I'm unsure as to why he gives it as advice to other players, as this seems very player dependant not grounds for every player.

I'm not so sure that Gordon's advice is about tells as much as it is about staying focused on what's happening in the game. I think he is saying if he looks before it is his turn to act and sees 83o the brain's natural tendancy is to relinquish some interest in the hand since the outcome no longer has immediate effect on his stack.
I'm sure this is more about developing a good habit that serves the entirety of his game (and mine as well). His example of AA versus staring into space is overstated for effect. Remember his material is pretty much directed at newer, less experienced players. Add to that the fact he will be the first to tell you (as he did in his Gold Book) that some of his material is old and antiquated and the game has changed since he wrote it - so back off my man Phil - LOL:shakehand

On the other hand you now have guy's like Joe Navarro advising to NOT wait for your turn to look at your cards since everyone will now have their attention on you and be able to "get something". His advice is strictly about tells.

For example, me on the other hand, I'm quite sure I have the same expression regardless.

But really, isn't about every other poker player also convinced of this.

If you are uninterested in a hand being played out live, when you are uninterested in your actual hand, then I'm unsure as to why he is at the table to start with. He seems to get bored very quickly. .

Grinding away 12+ hours at the table you are certainly going to go through assorted stages and phases of the ability to concentrate at a high competitive level.

I find every hand of interest, more so in fact when I'm not involved.

That is a gift. Use it well.

I am very disciplined the first couple hours of a cash game to wait as my study of the other players is at its highest as I am putting players on styles and such. Later I an apt to sneak peeks at my cards when another non-threatening player is looking.
In a tournament it's pretty much the opposite - I am more inclined to be more disciplined at the final table than at the beginning.

 

[rugby0]

Habits are very importat in poker. Looking at your cards in turn is just a habit. But a habit with benefits. You can watch your fellow players, get a drink, adjust your chair. But develop habits that protect your game.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

It's very important to look at the table reactions when the flop hits.
:icon_salu

One of the first things I look for is the fact that the guys I am looking at are looking at what cards come out on the flop. This is an indication that they are just playing their cards and are not really thinking too much about what anyone else has.

It's kind of funny when you end up in a stare down with another guy doing the same since it so rare at lower stakes.

 

[AceOfSpades24]

Yeah, I do. Actually, I think this is also a good way to gauge the ability of an unfamiliar opponent. If they wait 'til their turn, then chances are they are probably a better than average player. The only real downside is that people generally look at the person who's turn it is and that means that they will all be looking at you during the time you're looking at your cards. So, just make sure you give nothing away, especially during that time.

 

[FeltLikeIt]

Yeah i play alot of live, while others are viewing there cards you can pick up alot of tells. and if your looking at your cards right away they can pick up a tell form you. so simple observation of the table while everyones head is down is benifical. its like keeping your eyes open while everyone else is praying, you learn alot about the heart of man observing others

 

[WEC]

Most who play slowly are multi-tabling

I have seen that done in live at least once in my life.... :santaclau

 

[Fieldsy]

I think it would make more sense quickly looking at your hand then try to see what everyone else is doing. This way you can figure out a plan.

My reasoning is I would rather have maybe 1 person look at me while picking my cards up instead of waiting til the action is on me and all people looking at me to see what my cards look like.

 

[TimboJonez]

I like that advice, sometimes I get too impatient that I will look at it I will try that next live game

 

[JusSumguy]

One of the first things I look for is the fact that the guys I am looking at are looking at what cards come out on the flop. This is an indication that they are just playing their cards and are not really thinking too much about what anyone else has.

There are two things, in general, to look for on the flop.

1. They stare intently at the cards. This is a very good indicator that they're trying to figure out what they need next to make they're hand.

2. They see the flop and turn away, try to hide, start a conversation with their neighbor... etc. These folks have hit that flop and are trying not to give away their strength.

This happens fast and if you're looking at the cards fall, you'll miss the tell.

-

 

[skipizzle]

I try my best to do this in live poker, since the logic is very sound. Especially if you're playing in a home game where these tells can become VERY obvious. However, don't you think that you could give away more tells when everyone is watching you look at your cards for the first time? Definitely need to keep that poker face.

 

[JusSumguy]

I try my best to do this in live poker, since the logic is very sound. Especially if you're playing in a home game where these tells can become VERY obvious. However, don't you think that you could give away more tells when everyone is watching you look at your cards for the first time? Definitely need to keep that poker face.

Not so much about face as it is about pace.

-

 

[lcid86]

this may have been the best tip I ever got for live poker. Next time you play, see which players are doing this and then look at their stacks at the end of the night.

 

[Fieldsy]

I try my best to do this in live poker, since the logic is very sound. Especially if you're playing in a home game where these tells can become VERY obvious. However, don't you think that you could give away more tells when everyone is watching you look at your cards for the first time? Definitely need to keep that poker face.

I agree 100%

 

[ScottieDuncan]

Pick em up soon as u can. Memorize what u have so u don't have to keep looking. Keep looking might seem to others as not a good hand.

 

[etherghost]

There are two things, in general, to look for on the flop.

1. They stare intently at the cards. This is a very good indicator that they're trying to figure out what they need next to make they're hand.

2. They see the flop and turn away, try to hide, start a conversation with their neighbor... etc. These folks have hit that flop and are trying not to give away their strength.

This happens fast and if you're looking at the cards fall, you'll miss the tell.

-

This should be written in stone!

 

[sleepymike]

There are two things, in general, to look for on the flop.

1. They stare intently at the cards. This is a very good indicator that they're trying to figure out what they need next to make they're hand.

2. They see the flop and turn away, try to hide, start a conversation with their neighbor... etc. These folks have hit that flop and are trying not to give away their strength.

This happens fast and if you're looking at the cards fall, you'll miss the tell.

-

#2 Looking back I've been guilty of this, need to change this.

 

[Fieldsy]

any other solid tells that actually happen at a table?

 

[Karozi615]

I just started playing live and this was suggested to me by someone on these forums. I ALWAYS do this and I think it is INCREDIBLY helpful. I recommend it to everybody. The reason why is because I pay so much attention to the action before me, considering what players are doing, how much they are betting, without having the influence of already knowing my hand. Also it doesn't allow you to overthink things, you look at your cards, and in that first moment, after looking at previous action, you usually will have a first instinct on what action to take. The only time I don't do this is when I'm shortstacked and tilted, in that case im looking at the cards 1 at a time as they come to me

 

[JusSumguy]

any other solid tells that actually happen at a table?

If someone is eating and playing, they have a hand. Too busy eating to play junk hands.

-

 

[Fieldsy]

I just started playing live and this was suggested to me by someone on these forums. I ALWAYS do this and I think it is INCREDIBLY helpful. I recommend it to everybody. The reason why is because I pay so much attention to the action before me, considering what players are doing, how much they are betting, without having the influence of already knowing my hand. Also it doesn't allow you to overthink things, you look at your cards, and in that first moment, after looking at previous action, you usually will have a first instinct on what action to take. The only time I don't do this is when I'm shortstacked and tilted, in that case im looking at the cards 1 at a time as they come to me

okay I am highly intrigued. I just always assumed that if you wait until its on you, all eyes are on you.

 

[DyzzD]

I like to look as soon as I get them. It's just my preference as I tend to play fast, making quick decisions, quick bets, quick calls, all that. Gererally while UTG, I'll already have folded my cards before half the table gets their second card. I've sometimes varied and not looked until it's my turn to act, but just for me it slows down my game so much.

 

[JusSumguy]

okay I am highly intrigued. I just always assumed that if you wait until its on you, all eyes are on you.

No need to hide. This is your table. They fear you.

You handle this by timing and not varying your PF beats or moves.

If you get the old pump neck with a monster, fix that with clothing. If you get the out of breath need for a big breath, figure out how to deal with that. --> Ohhhhmmmmmmmm. That one will go away after a few games.

If you can't seem to find a way to get rid of the shaky hands syndrome... mebbe poker ain't for you.

-

 

[Fieldsy]

No need to hide. This is your table. They fear you.

You handle this by timing and not varying your PF beats or moves.

If you get the old pump neck with a monster, fix that with clothing. If you get the out of breath need for a big breath, figure out how to deal with that. --> Ohhhhmmmmmmmm. That one will go away after a few games.

If you can't seem to find a way to get rid of the shaky hands syndrome... mebbe poker ain't for you.

-

Every time early in a live session, my hands tend to shake a tad.....even when I am folded. I have a little social anxiety, but this all goes away within 20 minutes/30 min

Anytime I look at my cards, I just give out a blank stare for a second, put my cards down, lean back in my seat, and repeat.

Confidence is huge for me. When I am confidence, I feel like I can widen my range and kill it. Lately my cards have been so awful and it crushes my confidence.

 

[Bowman26]

I too follow this school of thought and playing. Of course it is much easier live since you get the cards down. If you have no clue what you have and are watching the action in front of you you cue in on more things. If you have a monster you are already thinking about how to maximize it and this can show in your face IMO.

Now for online here is what I do. I sit in the same seat everytime and just use a sticky note to cover my cards. Then when the action is on me I squeeze the stick note up and see my cards then decide what to do. Makes it like live play.

LMAO I am just kidding of course. It is cool online because you can see what you have and hit fold to go pee or refresh your drink etc. And of course no one can see you!