Are the majority of poker players broke?

[bnasp2]

I can confirm some live poker players in town. They have won big money, but they dont seem rich at all. They are driving normal cars, living in very modest appartments etc. I would say as someone mentioned here. Poker money are easy come, easy go.

 

[fasteddee74]

uarejelly, I just started Ace on the River and the chapter my Poker Career is a pretty good read. I had my entire live roll stolen at the beginning of May (just under 6K). I had already booked and paid for 8 days in Vegas for wsop and side events. This is the first time I have borrowed money to play or be staked. When I hear about big names in the game borrowing $$$$$$ to play and live it makes me feel better.

 

[Phoenix14]

Yes, they are broke because they give their money to the minority of players that take it from all of them.

 

[Weissr]

Once you add travel, accommodations, and living expenses for players playing in the big tourneys (WPT, WSOP, EPT...) you can see how any winnings would be siphoned away. Also, alot of poker players are degens and don't know when to stop, take a break, etc.. It's easy to see if you had previously hit a big score how you would think you can just do it again no problem. The amount of poker players that go broke vs the ones that make a living must be 90/10 or worse.

 

[cotta777]

I know that Steve o'dywer who is regarded as one of the best live tournament players in the world owed out alot of his EPT winnings

just goes to show he was obviously struggling at some point to pay back debts or to pay for his buy ins,

its a bad concept to grasp playing at the top of the spectrum your pretty much gambling as you lose your superior edge, as so many players on there day
are as good as you.
its important to take the time to pick the best games if possible

 

[Daniel72]

Timex, a well known player, staker and expert said in an interesting 2+2 podcast, that most players have way less money to their name than we expect. I remember he said a thousand bucks or so. They cannot play anything unless they are staked.

 

[Weissr]

I know that Steve o'dywer who is regarded as one of the best live tournament players in the world owed out alot of his EPT winnings

just goes to show he was obviously struggling at some point to pay back debts or to pay for his buy ins,

its a bad concept to grasp playing at the top of the spectrum your pretty much gambling as you lose your superior edge, as so many players on there day
are as good as you.
its important to take the time to pick the best games if possible

It was pretty funny to hear Steve say straight up in the interview after winning the EPT grand final "it's not all mine, I have backers" and look a little dissapointed. I think most poker players are backed but they just don't make it known.

I wonder if Antonio Esfandiari will ever say how much of the One Drop he had of himself.

 

[Weissr]

Timex, a well known player, staker and expert said in an interesting 2+2 podcast, that most players have way less money to their name than we expect. I remember he said a thousand bucks or so. They cannot play anything unless they are staked.

Thanks, I went and checked out that podcast. Always been a fan of Timex, he's always seemed like a good all around guy and an awesome poker player. I also learned something new about how Canadians get their US poker winnings taxed at 30% for scores over $5k. Now that's rake.

 

[Babaadi]

i'm playing for funn i do not have money i do not need them but if i win i will deserve that prise

 

[1ofTheFellas]

A HUGE majority of the poker community is broke... many "professional" grinders can barely pay their bills... The poker lifestyle is portrayed as very glamourous as seen on tv and whatnot, but just like any profession, the people that actually MAKE IT are few and far between.. Keep in mind too that when many of these players make big scores, alot of these "winnings" go back to the backer just to clear makeup..

 

[Propane Goat]

Professional players writing books about how to make a killing at poker while they themselves are flat broke or close to it remind me of the "gurus" who will show you how to make a fortune overnight flipping houses but won't tell you how many times they've had to file bankruptcy already. I'm not questioning their skills or what they teach, I'm questioning the overall image that they project with the help of the entertainment industry that sucks people in and takes their money, because they've been given a false impression of the lifestyle and what being a poker pro is like. People see all the glamour and big paychecks on TV and want that, but it's just an illusion. There's another thread on these boards started by somebody who wanted to go pro with a $10k bankroll and cut himself off from his family because they wouldn't support him.

To be brutally honest if I had to treat poker as anything other than a hobby I would throw the cards in the fireplace and never look back, it's a brutal way to try and make a living.

 

[frozensprx]

I think there were some misunderstandings in this thread. People that play poker "professionally" often fall into different categories. For instance, some famous people you see win a big tournament on tv might not spend endless hours in cash games or have spent years perfecting their edges in games. As such, if they get lucky and win a big tournament it is completely logical that after a few years their amount of money will be back to where it was before the tournament win (depending on the size of the win). That is simply due to the cost of living. However, making the case that many professional poker players that grind out many hours are broke is a much weaker argument, because I personally know quite a few people that use poker as their sole source of income and yes they have ups and downs but they still get their bills paid.

 

[afoostenrijk]

bad bankroll managment, the most players are playing aboth their limits, i played a time long aboth my head, i played in SCOOP en WCOOP played 1/2 online, and of course i busted my pokerstars account, then I went to Titan Poker ( stupid idea) and lost their because of their big rake (dont play that site its really bad) and then I went back to pokerstars deposited 600 dollars and played the NL10 and NL16 and since then i am consitently winning and I will not play aboth my head ever again, and I dont will bust my account again.

To the other thing high stakes still exist, by my homecasino montesino vienna every begin of the month there is high stakes action, and if you look to macau, there are the biggest cash game on earth but they are not televised.

 

[Weffy]

bad bankroll managment, the most players are playing aboth their limits, i played a time long aboth my head, i played in SCOOP en WCOOP played 1/2 online, and of course i busted my pokerstars account, then I went to titan poker ( stupid idea) and lost their because of their big rake (dont play that site its really bad) and then I went back to pokerstars deposited 600 dollars and played the NL10 and NL16 and since then i am consitently winning and I will not play aboth my head ever again, and I dont will bust my account again.

To the other thing high stakes still exist, by my homecasino montesino vienna every begin of the month there is high stakes action, and if you look to macau, there are the biggest cash game on earth but they are not televised.

Scared money -- watch out for that. Don't play like you can't loose the money. We smell the fear. Besides that, you play cash games only?

Is english a second language of yours? I'm having some trouble understanding you.

 

[afoostenrijk]

its my third language, i speak german and dutch, my english is not that good,
i was never scared when i played the higher limits, but if you have some bad runs then you are very fast out of money. I play now only cash game and with the Fpp I buy in for tournaments. First i played only tournaments http://www.officialpokerrankings.co...ngs/83BDF3206017464784D43534E6135C44.html?t=3 the results where not that bad but i played to high buy in tournaments and lost it all. Now I have 50 Bbi and since then it is going well, and the swings dont matter any more.

 

[RickAversion]

Going broke is basically the definition of being a gambler.
You can lose everything in 1 day.
Eventually, you will. Even if you just made $10 million yesterday.
Today, you bet $11 million.

 

[pocketacesa1]

Exactly, every professional gambler goes broke at some point in their career.

 

[MK8]

It's not true that every professional poker players goes broke at some point in their career. There are plenty of people that have decided that they wanted to beat poker, deposited at micros and slowly worked their way up through the ranks. I'm not saying that the final destination of these players is HSNL, but going broke isn't some rite passage as a poker player. Most high stakes players are broke, but less so as the old guard of high stakes pros changes to the younger players. There's much more accountability with who is busto and stiffing their backers now that high stakes is a might closer community. The old high stakes pros are notorious for being life degens, but time has a way of weeding those people out.

 

[vinylspiros]

the majority of poker players are broke. thats a pretty easy assumption.

 

[Weissr]

Almost every poker player has a story about once going completely broke...Sad but true.

It's like anything else involving easy money (ex. binking a huge tourney, etc....). Just look at the slew of lottery winners that go flat broke after winning millions; there have been so many they made a tv show about it.

Having to work hard day after day for your money makes you appreciate it so much more.


Notes: Poker is not the same as the lottery, but luck is a big component in both. Poker can be hard work for some, not denying that, but there are far tougher "jobs" out there.

 

[RickAversion]

It's not the luck, but the wagering component.
I can literally give a poker player $100 million bucks.
What will be do? He will just go find a table with $5 mil/$10 mil blinds.
This is why every gambler goes broke.
If he gets more money, he just starts to bet bigger.

Have you ever been "up" in Vegas? What did you do? Yea, you started to make huge bets until you gave it all back, and then some.

 

[guppystew]

hell, the people I play have plenty, you can't scare them off a gut shot draw with the river left to come out.

 

[quintass]

I'm broke, does that count?

 

[afoostenrijk]

hell, the people I play have plenty, you can't scare them off a gut shot draw with the river left to come out.

you know that, that is a good thing? and this players will give you a lot of money in the longrun

 

[afoostenrijk]

It's not the luck, but the wagering component.
I can literally give a poker player $100 million bucks.
What will be do? He will just go find a table with $5 mil/$10 mil blinds.
This is why every gambler goes broke.
If he gets more money, he just starts to bet bigger.

Have you ever been "up" in Vegas? What did you do? Yea, you started to make huge bets until you gave it all back, and then some.

That doesnt match for everybody, I have enough money for two lifes to spend, but guess, which limits I play, NL10 Nl16 NL25, i want to build my bankroll up with my own hard work, and i dont want to play like the business man with the big sharks, to donate my money to them. And maybe one day I become a shark myself. when I am up by roullete I go and dont place any bets

I recalled watching HSP and watching how much money all these guys have. PLaying 300/600nl with 100 dollar straddle. then i start reading that many of these players arent even playing 100 percent of their own money. I mean unless you are durrrr, then you are most likely not. Am i right on this?


Also there was a player named eskimo clark and i read about how much moneyhe made from tourneys and now its like hes asking for a stakes just for a 300 dollar tounament. I read an article that a guy who didnt want to disclose his name said most live pros are broke and have backers for tournaments. And even if they hit a big score, they dont get most of it b/c they are staked.


But when you look at the real cash game poker scene, 10/20nl is the highest running game that goes regularly and thats in bellagio in vegas and commerce. Isn't it shockinw how big games don't even exist anymore compared to HSP?


I mean when was the last time there is actually like a 100/200nl game at a casino? It probably happens not counting WSOP less than 3 times a year?


Also im shocked but how could some players who play so high end up going broke or close to it? I read someone mentioned there was a guy who used to play 25/50nl heads up online and he saw him playing 2/5nl shortstacked and once he doubled up, he left.


Does anyone feel like poker gives a false illusion? You see all the money on the table like in HSP but games like that dont even really exist much unless its on TV or WSOP?

Well if your able to find a poker game at all your lucky compared to me. In this little town I'm in I cant ever find or get a poker game going at all. Everyone's to broke around here. Lucky if I get to play in a game at all unless its online.

Seems like I can always do pretty good playing poker, but gamblingball together I have a problem with lol.

I seem to always start out winning sometimes even a lot, but before its over I usually lose everything I've won plus some.

I just dont know when to quit I guess.

I'm a poker player and I'm pretty much broke

Not from playing poker though. I do pretty good when I play. For the most part anyway.

I usually play till I go broke though. Most of time it's from other games I lose my money on not poker.