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havealittlefaith
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Definitely keep these two accounts separated. You're life roll should always be growing, you're poker roll doesn't matter. Up and down swings in poker should not affect your overall finances in any negative way. Only if you win should it affect you because then you can put that money into your life roll and grow it even more!
playinggameswithu
Legend
Silver Level
You theoretically should give yourself a poker bankroll in which you are forced to stop playing when it hits $0 or effectively $0 for good reasons. But if poker is your hobby you are going to want to keep playing. That being said this game should never be played at amounts that jeopardize your life. You can make life changing money with a $215 Tourney. Realistically there is no bankroll or liferoll really it is the same thing a "roll". This is especially true if you play for a living.
MemphisGrind
Think Bink
Bronze Level
So you are in agreement with how I am currently doing it? I was thinking I should keep my bankroll apart from "life roll". If not I will merge the money together and not have a good grasp on win rate, or which stakes to play based on my current "poker bankroll"
mariuspoker1
Rock Star
Silver Level
I'm not an expert in building or keeping bankroll management because me too I'm trying all kinds of strategies to build up my bankroll but i think how you are doing now( meaning keep "liferoll" and poker bankroll separate) is a very wise decision. So what can i say more: DO HOW YOU THINK IS BEST FOR YOU BECAUSE YOUR BRAIN IS THE ONLY BRAIN WHICH IS ON YOUR SIDE!!!Withdraw money from poker - of course yes , but depositing money to poker just only when you zero on the account poker. Of course, it is better to avoid this and go to lower stakes according to BM. Good luck
Mase31683
Legend
Silver Level
It's way more important to simply keep good records. There's no such thing as bankroll management unless you're a winning player, which the small minority are.
For the vast majority, the 'bankroll' is going to become depleted eventually and require reloading.
If you're working a job that has you comfortable, just log your sessions, play with the money you've earmarked for poker, and have fun
For the vast majority, the 'bankroll' is going to become depleted eventually and require reloading.
If you're working a job that has you comfortable, just log your sessions, play with the money you've earmarked for poker, and have fun
A
aj1300
Rock Star
Silver Level
For me, it's important to keep the two bankrolls separate. Taking care of home, bills, family, etc. should be a different fund than poker.
If you have extra in the life bankroll (after bills and savings), I think it's okay to put a set amount into the poker bankroll.
If you have extra in the life bankroll (after bills and savings), I think it's okay to put a set amount into the poker bankroll.
MemphisGrind
Think Bink
Bronze Level
I agree with keeping good records. I go above and beyond in this department. I am a winning player, have been for the last few years. My Original post was about keeping my bankroll and life roll separate. I try not to touch my "bankroll" for personal things like.. eating out at expensive restaurants, but I occasionally tap in, because my life roll goes towards Bills and life stuff, and my bankroll is money I want to spend on frivolous things, but the (reason behind the post) should I keep them separate and practice better discipline even though I can afford many things with my bankroll.
MemphisGrind
Think Bink
Bronze Level
I feel ya. but just advice.. don't look at it as "building a bankroll" because if you are not a winning player the bankroll you are trying to build will continuously go back to 0. Focus more on your leaks... the places you play, figure out how the players "in your stakes and your tables" are playing and figure out a solid strategy to combat against them. I had the same mindset years ago and it was an expensive lesson... Good luck.
Jacki Burkhart
long winded rambler...
Silver Level
I love this question and it sounds like I'm in a similar situation to you.
everyone loves to preach bankroll management and they are not wrong, but traditional BRM is intended for a pro player who's entire source of income must come from poker. The risk of ruin is very real and to be avoided at all costs because once you're broke, you're broke and can't play poker anymore.
It's totally different for those of us with jobs who can essentially "auto replenish" every 2 weeks. even when we "go broke" we don't really go broke.
however....without some sort of discipline and BRM we can easily become a donator or losing player and maybe not notice as readily as a pro would be forced to realize it.
I don't have any real answer for you....but I will tell you that I do not subscribe to traditional BRM.
for instance the guideline of 100 buy ins for MTTs? yeah no. that's absurd. in a vacuum I'm sure it's mathematically sound but our time on this earth is limited and so we have to weigh many factors. For instance, those of us with jobs sometimes play whichever tourneys are conveniently located or scheduled for us. Because we don't travel the circuit fulltime if a very good value tourney is just a couple hours drive away and at a time that works with our job and we have the money to play it....but we don't have 100x the money to play it....should we skip it? I think NO!!!! HELL NO!!!!
I played the main event this year and I guarantee you that while my bankroll is healthy it is not $10,000 x 100. i happened to have the time off at my job and I happened to have investors. so I think I'd be a fool to skip it even though BRM purists would say I was a fool.
so what to do? I think we need to strike a compromise so we don't delude ourselves about BRM.
Here's what I do: I do keep my poker money separate from my life money. I actually have separate bank accounts for them and a safe at home to keep a small portion of my poker bankroll in cash just for convenience and to avoid ATM fees since I mostly play on weekends. (corporate job).
as for making decisions about how big you can play with that money....it's somewhat personal and related to your goals.
If you go broke how long will it take you of saving your expendible income before you can play again? How many weeks or months is that? are you comfortable with waiting that amount of time? If yes...then you can essentially go broke any time without any significant life crisis ensuing. but pretend you only have a few extra dollars per month and so it would take you about a year to build again to the point you could play...if that would be a life crisis for you then you need some BRM.
I play for fun and challenge and achievement. I do not rely on any poker income as supplemental income. therefore I can afford to lose my entire bankroll at anytime and while I would be sad, I would only be out of the game about 2 months before I could come back to $1/2 cash and occasional $100 MTTs. For me this is an acceptable risk. and in 10 years I've never actually gone broke though I've been close....very close lol.
what works for me is a 20:1 ratio
I can afford to buy into events that are essentially 5% of my bankroll.
If I want to play something bigger I just sell action so that I've only got 5% of my bankroll invested...or if that's not feasible then I just decide "how much do I want to play this? can i consider this a recreation expense? like a vacation?"
how many hedge fund managers use a form of BRM to decide how much golf they can play on vacation? Or do they just abide by the "work hard play hard" principle?
I hope my rambling has helped you somewhat lol.
everyone loves to preach bankroll management and they are not wrong, but traditional BRM is intended for a pro player who's entire source of income must come from poker. The risk of ruin is very real and to be avoided at all costs because once you're broke, you're broke and can't play poker anymore.
It's totally different for those of us with jobs who can essentially "auto replenish" every 2 weeks. even when we "go broke" we don't really go broke.
however....without some sort of discipline and BRM we can easily become a donator or losing player and maybe not notice as readily as a pro would be forced to realize it.
I don't have any real answer for you....but I will tell you that I do not subscribe to traditional BRM.
for instance the guideline of 100 buy ins for MTTs? yeah no. that's absurd. in a vacuum I'm sure it's mathematically sound but our time on this earth is limited and so we have to weigh many factors. For instance, those of us with jobs sometimes play whichever tourneys are conveniently located or scheduled for us. Because we don't travel the circuit fulltime if a very good value tourney is just a couple hours drive away and at a time that works with our job and we have the money to play it....but we don't have 100x the money to play it....should we skip it? I think NO!!!! HELL NO!!!!
I played the main event this year and I guarantee you that while my bankroll is healthy it is not $10,000 x 100. i happened to have the time off at my job and I happened to have investors. so I think I'd be a fool to skip it even though BRM purists would say I was a fool.
so what to do? I think we need to strike a compromise so we don't delude ourselves about BRM.
Here's what I do: I do keep my poker money separate from my life money. I actually have separate bank accounts for them and a safe at home to keep a small portion of my poker bankroll in cash just for convenience and to avoid ATM fees since I mostly play on weekends. (corporate job).
as for making decisions about how big you can play with that money....it's somewhat personal and related to your goals.
If you go broke how long will it take you of saving your expendible income before you can play again? How many weeks or months is that? are you comfortable with waiting that amount of time? If yes...then you can essentially go broke any time without any significant life crisis ensuing. but pretend you only have a few extra dollars per month and so it would take you about a year to build again to the point you could play...if that would be a life crisis for you then you need some BRM.
I play for fun and challenge and achievement. I do not rely on any poker income as supplemental income. therefore I can afford to lose my entire bankroll at anytime and while I would be sad, I would only be out of the game about 2 months before I could come back to $1/2 cash and occasional $100 MTTs. For me this is an acceptable risk. and in 10 years I've never actually gone broke though I've been close....very close lol.
what works for me is a 20:1 ratio
I can afford to buy into events that are essentially 5% of my bankroll.
If I want to play something bigger I just sell action so that I've only got 5% of my bankroll invested...or if that's not feasible then I just decide "how much do I want to play this? can i consider this a recreation expense? like a vacation?"
how many hedge fund managers use a form of BRM to decide how much golf they can play on vacation? Or do they just abide by the "work hard play hard" principle?
I hope my rambling has helped you somewhat lol.
MemphisGrind
Think Bink
Bronze Level
Yes, we have VERY similar view on this. I have a few "side incomes" that I use to "pad" my roll as some would say. Where as my job pays my bills. I like your 5% rule and will try and apply it to my live games. I want to start playing more tournaments like the WPT, HPT, some circuit events, and make a trip to the wsop in Vegas however that can get expensive quick.
I'd like to get into staking, but until I feel like I have a FIRM grasp on my MTT game I won't consider risking anybody's hard earned money. One of my only 2 cashes on Hendon Mob out of 8 tournaments over $150 buy in I've played, was staked by a local friend of mine. However they offered without me even asking.
Right now I am also playing for fun and challenge and achievement. It's also a way to prove to myself (A past gambling addict), that I can have this in my life and control it with a proper balance of life, exercise, family, and poker. Something satisfying about succeeding and reaching goals.
So thank you again, I always appreciate the time you put in to your replies and posts.
V
ViolentID
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Just read your bankroll management analysis and enjoyed it very much> You didn't mention where you ranked in the main Event and id like to know? Also what was the experience like? I recently made a substantial gain in the 1/2 at a local casino and had no idea about bankroll management and dumped it back in and the some and am now stuck playing online which I enjoy tho. My biggest problem is I enjoy the 2/5 and the big pots that go with the game but the variance is extreme. you can be up 1700 and then sitting with 400 an hour later even with semi conservative play. Another problem I have is taking the 1/2 game seriously after playing the 2/5. Can you offer some tips for this?
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MemphisGrind
Think Bink
Bronze Level
I play both 1/2 and 2/5 and I focus on playing my A game and making the best decisions no matter what stakes I’m playing. They have different strategies, but still focus just as hard if not harder at 1/2. The goal is the same on both and that is to make the best decisions each street.
V
ViolentID
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Very different days on the table
Definatley gonna take that to heart. Making the best decisions on each street. The biggest problem I had was the difference in players. The first night was on a Thursday and there were a lot of bad players and I ran well hitting my gutshots, and Broadway many times, not to mention set after set. I experienced some losses but cashed well. The second time was on a Monday and the competition on the 1/2 was nothing like it was befire. Not to mention I was running bad. The biggest problem I see is to much money with when your running bad and making bad decisions. When its not your day there's nothing wrong with packing up and going home. Making some self evaluations and coming back later. It beats the alternative which is dumping your bankroll and having to start over. I'm personally going to wait for the WSOP in Vegas before I play live again. That gives me till May 2019 to save. I only want to play the 1500 dollar horse tournament and the Collosus which is 585 to enter but its a millionaire maker. You play any mixed games? Or is holdem your main source?
Definatley gonna take that to heart. Making the best decisions on each street. The biggest problem I had was the difference in players. The first night was on a Thursday and there were a lot of bad players and I ran well hitting my gutshots, and Broadway many times, not to mention set after set. I experienced some losses but cashed well. The second time was on a Monday and the competition on the 1/2 was nothing like it was befire. Not to mention I was running bad. The biggest problem I see is to much money with when your running bad and making bad decisions. When its not your day there's nothing wrong with packing up and going home. Making some self evaluations and coming back later. It beats the alternative which is dumping your bankroll and having to start over. I'm personally going to wait for the WSOP in Vegas before I play live again. That gives me till May 2019 to save. I only want to play the 1500 dollar horse tournament and the Collosus which is 585 to enter but its a millionaire maker. You play any mixed games? Or is holdem your main source?
MemphisGrind
Think Bink
Bronze Level
That's awesome and good luck when you go play the collosus it's a crap shoot, but worth it if you defy the odds. Yes, I play all games. I put a decent amount of study time into every game, but hold-em receives the highest amount of my time. The horse tournament will be a good experience for you but there are some monsters in that event.
B
bugiardops
Visionary
Bronze Level
I think keeping the two separated is the best way. Do not risk your "life money", unless that's about a lot of money and after paying all your monthly bills your balance is big.
On the contrary, taking money out of your "bankroll" is considerable and plausible.
On the contrary, taking money out of your "bankroll" is considerable and plausible.
V
ViolentID
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Poker odds
I had a question about poker odds one hand in particular, hit me up when you get this if you don't mind...
MemphisGrind
Think Bink
Bronze Level
Jacki Burkhart
long winded rambler...
Silver Level
I wonder if this question is for me? If so...here is my answer. I played the 2018 main event flight C which was the largest single starting flight of all times. it was an amazing experience. people always say "oh the main is special it's not just a 10k" and for years I've rolled my eyes and thought "a tourney is a tourney. I'd rather play 6 or 7 $1,500 events than 1 main event".
But...I was approached by investors and they made me an offer I could not refuse. So I played and boy was my prior thought process wrong. The main is special. It is different. Not just the cameras everywhere and TV crews and the amazing energy in the room....EVERYONE knows they are playing the main event....THE event of the year. even the biggest name pros treat it with reverence. It just feels different in the room. I'm actually getting chills typing this.....such a dorky dirl thing to say but it's true.
But also this sense that you're INSIDE your own dream. you're some place that you've imagined yourself being so many times.
after a few orbits it starts to feel just like regular poker....until you go on break or take a minute to reflect.
as to my performance I did great on day 1. I had a ridiculously tough table with 6 Euro pros all wearing patches including Sylvan Loosli and a dude from holland, a dude from italy, a canadian pro with 2 million in live cashes and 2 online euro pros. The "easy spots" at the table were a 23 year old florida colllege kid who was overly aggressive and me. I didn't play perfect but I held my own and ended up bagging 120k off a 50k starting stack. since most people survive day 1 this was a little above average stack.
Day 2 I had another even tougher table draw and we were set to be the feature table after the first break. We were filling out our ESPN bio sheets and signing release waivers. I lost a big chunk of my chips with AK while the cameras were rolling and then 2 hands later I got it in vs the same guy I had KK and he had AK and there was an ace in the window.
sigh. and I was out.
I wouldn't trade it for the world and Now I'm singing a different tune and I'd like to try and play it every year if I can get my investor situation in line.
I included the write up from the wsop blog with my photo. I don't like the quote they gave me because while I did say that I was 100% kidding, me and that guy were joking nonstop...the way they quoted me makes me seem like I'm being cold and bicchhy
I disagree about the colossus. Yes the stacks are short but the levels are long and the players are bad. if you have a good strategy for 12-25bb you will do fine in this event.
I've cashed 2/2 times i've ever played and my other poker girlfriend has cashed 5/7 flights of colossus that she has played over 3 years. most people will not have results as good as ours but it basically all comes down to whether or not you win your first flip.
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Stawg420NL
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I would keep the two of the separate... that's what I'm doing... I have a bankroll to play with on pokerstars but I also have my bank account used for general stuff and bills... obviously we all want to make a living from poker but I k ow my skill isn't there and I play with the money I'm comfortable with losing... instead of having a couple grand in your bankroll and hit a rough patch.. then you can't pay your bills... that's why I keep them separate
terryk
TheCanuckwithalltheluck
Bronze Level
I agree about keeping things seperate,,,i have multiple bank accounts,and even more poker accounts.My father gave me great advice as a kid,,,"watch your pennies,,,the dollars take care of themselves",,,and it has served me well. (My father was as "old school" as it gets,,,he actually walked to school barefoot in 3 feet of snow,,,lol) :laugh: