darkassassin89
Legend
Silver Level
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/i-am-sick-losing-im-starting-187879/
hahaha here it is
my rant of pissed off ness
hahaha here it is
my rant of pissed off ness
L
Liveone1
Rock Star
Silver Level
I do understand not wanting to re-deposit.
I doubt you do because...
Here's where I have a question though.... what is it that you're hoping to learn from the play chip games? I mean if you think you can be a winning player in the micros then to me it makes full sense to just deposit a small sum of money & work on the areas you need to focus on (even if that means 'tilt management' &/or BRM).
In a perfect world that's how it should be, but this world is far from perfect and it doesn't work that way because we are people and not robots. Most poker players simply don't have the will power to implement your strategy seeing as there is a negative past associated with depositing such a small amount trying to chase a memory of what once was.
If he were to take your route then once bad variance hit he'd start to glance at his measly bankroll in comparison to the one he once had and all sorts of emotions would set in. Doubt, anger, frustration, self loathing (feeling like a loser for even attempting this) and above all a sense of urgency.
Now, he's making bad decisions as his confidence starts to wither away and his game suffers. Before you know it he's deposited again and the cycle continues. He needs to break the cycle! This is the much more likely outcome resulting from a small redeposit for most people.
What I'm getting at is.... the 'learning process' while playing poker is a never-ending process BUT I think if you were to spend time in the playchip games (&/or reg. freerolls) they'll just stunt your growth as a player (kinda like they'll be a waste of time... because there's nothing we're really learning while playing them... stagnating to a degree). And if anything, one can pick up alot of bad habits from them (even if one is making the effort to re-adjust when making the move back to real money micro tables).
The main priority of any poker player should be to improve their will power. In the end this is what separates the successful players from the degenerates. Come to think of it, Poker After Dark's latest commercial illustrates this pretty damn well.
It takes a tremendous amount of will power to not only accumulate 20 million play money chips, but to do it in a timely fashion and actually stay the course as opposed to calling it quits once you've reached 5-10 million. On the other hand you might hit 20 million, but it'll cost you 2 months because you (to quote you), "develop bad habits" and stop playing poker with the proper fundamentals along the way when the suck outs start to sting. This is contributed to lack of will power.
Most people who play for real money (SNG's, MTT's & Cash Games) say they will wait until they have 'x' buy in's before they move up to 'y' limit, but usually move up to 'y' limit well before they actually have 'x' buy ins because they lack the will power to overcome the sense of urgency.
Ironically enough, the only way to ever earn 20 million play chips in the shortest amount of time is to have the will power to be patient and overcome that sense of urgency. The same applies when playing for real money. People in positions like OP and myself who take the play chips route attach value to our play chips, which is what I think most with your view of play money overlook, and thus further improve the fundamentals of their game (will power) while gaining confidence.
While the game does get tougher, as the limits grow higher, the goal is always the same and that is to beat the game. At 2NL there is very little fold equity, so it's best not to bluff most of the time. Thus, there's really nothing to learn except patience and will power to get to higher limits where you can improve your game. The same applies with play money. In other words, according to you (though unbeknownst to you), you are wasting your time playing at 2NL the same way you would be wasting your time playing with play money.
The difference between 2NL and play money is that it consistently only takes a couple of weeks to make 20 million chips or $80 because the games are so soft while just as much will power is required. Try that at 2NL while playing ABC without having a million tables open.
I find this happening for myself a bit, when I spend time on some sites where I have a small bankroll (I have a few sites that I've ground up from a freeroll cash)... 10-tabling 2nl one day & then attempting to play a $109 freezeout the next (did this last week & went out on the first hand I played in a deepstacked Sun.Tourney, lol).... just kinda screws me up a bit... it takes me out of my groove. (not sure if I'm getting my point across at all???).
Case and point.
Personally I think you'd be far better off to just put down any kind of small deposit (even if it's just $25), & then attempting to grind it up from there. (oh yah... & of course 'go for the final table in the CC Freerolls!!!)
In the end, if you don't have the will power to; reach 20 million chips, not develop bad habits in the process, learn respect for discipline, bankroll management and patience all in a timely fashion (which is inevitable if your will power has improved) then you are shooting yourself in the foot by making a small redeposit considering what once was. The entire point of play money is to practice and the OP along with myself realize we need to practice and develop our will power. Nothing wrong with the CC freerolls though.
GL on the journey!
Currently sitting at 4 million.
Last edited:
-Phil Ivey27
Visionary
Silver Level
^^ Both of you made good points in your posts. I agree with the fact that bad habits can be developed playing games such as this, but I mentioned in one of my posts that I will do my best to not acquire these habits. I also agree with pretty much everything live one said in the above post. I think you understand well due to being in this spot.
Now to clear things up I am no longer free rolling/ playing play chips as Jjbish offered to stake me $10 in this post. He is extremely kind for doing so and I thank him again! I am playing .01/.02 NL and will continue to use proper BR management to rebuild. I will update this thread every day to tell everyone how I am doing.
Currently at $16.40
Now to clear things up I am no longer free rolling/ playing play chips as Jjbish offered to stake me $10 in this post. He is extremely kind for doing so and I thank him again! I am playing .01/.02 NL and will continue to use proper BR management to rebuild. I will update this thread every day to tell everyone how I am doing.
Currently at $16.40
A
Aldito
Legend
Silver Level
Obviously don't play the public freerolls. Why not play the cardschat ones?
Or just deposit 20 bucks and play daily dollar satellites. And if you can't afford to deposit $20, then quit poker until you're not poor.
Playing with play chips is just ridiculous. Not only is it an insultingly bad waste of time, it will also more than likely have a negative effect on your game because the play is just so dreadful.
*EDIT*
my bad didn't read past the OP and first few responses
Well considering you only have 8 buyins you are already breaking BR management. The only thing you can play is DD sats, if you want to do this properly from the start. Otherwise you're just going to be making another one of these threads in a month...
I used to constantly load on 10/20 dollars to sites when I started out. These aren't proper bankrolls. Any sort of swing can wipe a large majority of it out, and you'll just tilt off the rest again. I don't know if you're a student/working/unemployed, but if you want to take it seriously save at least $60-80 so you have a proper bankroll from the outset, and spend time studying and reading the HA section in the meantime. I don't mean to sound like a pr1ck but speaking from experience and being in your situation many times, depositing a proper bankroll was the best thing I ever did. It meant I wasn't checking my balance every hand because an 80/20 could wipe out 20% of my bankroll.
Good luck if you decide to keep ploughing on, but the time it takes to get up to ~$50/~$100 is not worth it imo.
Last edited:
-Phil Ivey27
Visionary
Silver Level
I think playing DD satellites is a terrible idea. This money is not the "oh I hope I don't lose this I have to play 30 cent satellites to make sure I don't" type of money, it is building money, and that is what I intend to do with it. I am not worrying about the time it will take to build this roll. I will not deposit again and will do my best with the money that was staked to me. If I hit some HORRIFIC run of cards then what can you do.. On top of all of this I have a lot of confidence that I can dominate 2NL as I had absolutely no problem with 5NL. I appreciate the advice though.
joe steady
Rock Star
Silver Level
This is so cool. Awesome thing you're doing, man:congrats:. OP, good luck with the next run, play well and keep us posted.To give you a lil hope maybe?
I started with $0 and gained my initial BR the old fashioned freeroll way back when it wasn't quite as daunting. From there I have had 4 "real" BR's playing over rolled as hi as 2-4 plo. Each time I've had to cash it out due to life happens. But each time I had $5 to $ 25 left and started over. in fact now I'm at the micro's again
As sickening, and disheartening, as it is. It happens! You are not the first or the last. But have you learned the way so that it is "your" last time?
I will spot you $10 on stars to get you going again if you PM me your stars name and city ( as long as you have a clean history. hate to get my acct closed, just being safe). And you show you will be smart with it.
BUT I expect $10 back in the future after you have rebuilt your roll. Nothing is free
L
Liveone1
Rock Star
Silver Level
+1 for the 1st part. As for the second its to each his own.
@Phil Ivey (I bet that never gets old for you lol) - It sounds like you jumped ship! I guess it's tough to turn down an offer for a steak, but I really think you were on to something even if most disagree. I hope you prove me wrong dude. Seeing as you're not into play money anymore I guess there's no point in me updating my stats on this thread...
6.75 mil
1 more for the ego
I'm pullin' for you.:congrats:
naruto_miu
Legend
Silver Level
JOEBOB69
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Not tring to say anything out of the way but a few weeks ago you started a thread about taking shots outside(proper bm).I think this is a end result of that type of thinking.Don't get me wrong bm is by FAR FAR my worst part of poker,but i do not think you'll get over this problem.Because i am the same way an i still have not over come this.Much luck to ya though an keep this one updated unlike the other please.
-Phil Ivey27
Visionary
Silver Level
You are correct, it is an end result of that type of thinking. And you are incorrect because I plan on never doing such a thing again, whether you have overcome this does not make a difference to whether or not I will.. But even so good luck doing so and I will keep this updated.
jjbish
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Play your best and do NOT be results oriented. That is so hard to follow because we are ALL results oriented in some way. As an example. I always look at my cashier after a session, ALWAYS. But I have gotten away from looking at it during a session.
If there are any hands you have questions on, dont hesitate to pm me them. It may give you a different perspective, or confirm that your play is standard or wtf.
If there are any hands you have questions on, dont hesitate to pm me them. It may give you a different perspective, or confirm that your play is standard or wtf.
-Phil Ivey27
Visionary
Silver Level
My update of today is that I am up to $18.94.
Choice of play now is 6 max 2 NL, 4 tabling, have been playing this for awhile and am going to adapt more of a tight strategy as that is what seemingly works. Any good tips for 6 max?
Choice of play now is 6 max 2 NL, 4 tabling, have been playing this for awhile and am going to adapt more of a tight strategy as that is what seemingly works. Any good tips for 6 max?
twoturntablez
Rock Star
Silver Level
Good on yer for wanting to build without depositing. Its great to build a roll from nothing. I made such a point about it, with my partner who loves poker too, you have to at least be good enough to win free money in order tpo play for money. So we didnt put any on and well, i slowly built to $200 and purchase of HEM from freerolls. Thing is, I play poker for money in pub tournaments a couple of times a week and they are pretty soft. Friends and family contributed $150 nz in three cash games over christmas. This money typically gets spent on food, petrol and treats for the kids. I was out today at our league final busted in about 20th/65 and sat down to a $10 cashy, got 2nd. $40. I do wonder whether I should deposit this, or other poker cash wins onto a new site such as bodog or cake for a bonus to aim for. I just dont really know how I feel about this as so far I have kept online and real life poker bankrolls entirely seperate. Im a bit tempted to just take a shot with a few buyins at a much higher level than im used to playing online.4x$10nl. I have played $1/$2 live at the casino and im up heaps in live play. However I play 2nl with $200 behind because im just not beating it. Im still so breakeven. Well the tracking sites have me on a feww bb/100 but it feels like im getting trashed in my flips and when i get it in with the best i dont win. I remember complaining about how many AA hands Id had and hadnty made profit. My pc got wiped and I had to start again but AA is -$9 after 1000's hands. Anyway, have a good think about where the softest game of poker could be for you. Win there. Deposit win. I think it will dramatically reduce the amount of time you will have to spend. Playing 7500 player freeroll is not really on. I got 6th once, $9 maybe, for 9 hours. If you dont make final table its just cents. Stop playing for a few hours and devote time into skimming the private games on your poker rooms. Sign up for the freerolls with relatively smaller fields. Make a diary of the times of the frerolls and try to get as many on different sites at one time therefore saving time. Just a couple of suggestions, its the plan i'd use if I lost my br tomorrow. Best of luck, you can do it.
-Phil Ivey27
Visionary
Silver Level
Patty- thanks alot for the support. BR up to $25.55 after cashing in the ferguson and playing a little more 2NL so things are on the up and up!
twoturntables- thanks alot for the suggestions although I do now have a bankroll.
twoturntables- thanks alot for the suggestions although I do now have a bankroll.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Cool! Keep at it! Slow & steady.
B
bigjay2007
Rock Star
Silver Level
I think poker is a game of acceptance. If you are going to be torn up when you empty your bankroll, you will be depressed a lot. You cant have a lot of respect for the $$ you are going to gamble. I see it all the time with people who get eliminated and then go off the rails. too much stress if you ask me.
-Phil Ivey27
Visionary
Silver Level
Atrocious play there. It goes down to the bubble in like 2 1/2 hours and there was over 2.7k entrants or something. I was a big stack and got knocked out by back to back bad beats including a huge pot with my 10 10 against A8 suited all in pre-flop and he ended up with a flush, so sick.
O
Oil_Fan
Rock Star
Silver Level
Ouch...
-Phil Ivey27
Visionary
Silver Level
After a long day of playing poker my bankroll is now up to $51.97. And yes, I have been using proper bankroll management. Don't think the day is done just yet.. Let's hope my run continues and variance doesn't $%&@ me up, although at this point I can take a hit! wee
-Phil Ivey27
Visionary
Silver Level
Yeah i'll start playing 5NL when I hit $100 and go back down if I lose a few buy-ins. Generally I plan to be a little more of a bankroll nit than this but I've played 5NL for awhile and know what it takes to succeed there so I will be very comfortable with 20 buy-ins.