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thejuanupsman
Rock Star
Silver Level
So marriage is gambling??
For example, a stripper quits her job (wagering something of material value) to marry a rich drunken slob (an event with an uncertain outcome) simply cause he is horny and rich and will reward her putting out (primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods)?
haha that was FUN
I think you are stretching the definition of wager. She is risking something of material value but a risk and a wager, while sharing some similar connotations are not synonymous.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
You can be a long-term winner and still be gambling.
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dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
There's a controvery if "investing" is really gambling. If you were to buys stocks in the anticipation of returns based on projected earnings and those earnings were made and increased the value of the company reflects on its stock price or dividends as with most value equity stocks than yes it's not gambling.
However it the "investing" takes into account that the stock value will be grow..as in growth equity stocks ( the tech stocks of the 2000) and capital gains appreciated exceed the P/E ratio expected then it becomes gambling as the price is likely controlled by manipulation, much like the daytraders during the tech nasdaq bubble.
Fear and greed start becoming important elements in decision making and create extreme volatily in the stock price. The price of the stock becomes impossible to predict and this is gambling.
Knowlege has nothing to do with gambling. I know the rules, stragety, odds of blackjack when I play and its still gambling....someone may not know the stragety of blacjack as well but he's still gambling....I might win more often than him but im still gambling.....in the end the house wins.
Back to the stock market, inside knowledge is something different , Martha Steward went to prison cause she had knowlege not everyone knew and got caught. But that knowlege is considered cheating.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
If this is our definition of gambling (and I haven't seen anyone refute it yet)...
...then investing in stocks (with the possible exclusion of insider trading, which as you correctly note is illegal anyway) is 100% gambling as well - it's just more socially acceptable than playing poker or betting on horses.
In your first example, you're talking about buying a stock based on its projected earnings. That's the key word - projected. At the point you buy the stock, there's absolutely no guarantees those earnings will be made and that the stock will rise in value, or that the stock will rise in value even if those earnings are made. You're putting up money, on an event with an unknown outcome, with the primary intent of making more money. You're gambling. Maybe you're gambling with good odds, maybe it's +EV, but it's still gambling.
The exact same goes for day traders. And as for blackjack, it's not the fact that the house always wins in the end that makes it gambling - it's the fact that you're wagering money on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning more money. Whether you win or lose over the course of a session, a year or even your lifetime is immaterial.
What I don't understand is why everyone seems so scared to label the things they do as "gambling"? I guess it doesn't look good on a housing loan application. And there's that very specific legislative issue in the US too I suppose...
duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
i think its funny how you imply there is 'safe wholesome investments' and those that the evil day traders 'manipulate'. choosing a fixed or floating mortgage rate is gambling. deciding to buy a house is gambling. deciding to go to university is gambling. every decision has monetary value and you are wagering on an outcome. the definition is pretty useless and irrelevant, its just used to describe those things that are 'morally wrong'.
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dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
When you play backjack you are gambling right? Is the house gambling?
When you sports bet you are gambling right? Is the bookie gambling?
The bookie or the house is "gambling" as they have to pay out if the outcome doesnt go their way....but the odds and point spread is in their favor so in the long run they win....so..it's consider a business not a gambling even if the definiton of gambling fits .....who ever heard on a gambler who could bust the house at blackjack?
Their projected earnings is consider not gambling but a business . If you wish could broaden your deifintion of gambling to include pretty much anything.
When you sports bet you are gambling right? Is the bookie gambling?
The bookie or the house is "gambling" as they have to pay out if the outcome doesnt go their way....but the odds and point spread is in their favor so in the long run they win....so..it's consider a business not a gambling even if the definiton of gambling fits .....who ever heard on a gambler who could bust the house at blackjack?
Their projected earnings is consider not gambling but a business . If you wish could broaden your deifintion of gambling to include pretty much anything.
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dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
I dont use definition, i think it can be pretty much common sense what is gambling and what is not.
Not every decision has monetary value. I decide to walk across a busy street. Am I gambling?
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dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
I dont use definition, i think it can be pretty much common sense what is gambling and what is not.
Not every decision has monetary value. I decide to walk across a busy street. Am I gambling?
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dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
I think you are confusing risk and gambling. The house never loses in the long run. It does expose itself to the risk of paying off a lucky bettor but the house isnt consider gambling simply because the level of risk is so low that outcome will be certain. Who ever heard of a casino going out of business, unless something unusal like cheating(eg cardcounting in bj) or someone comes in to rob the place.
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tcummo
Visionary
Silver Level
Cuttlefish,
No,it does not bother me at all if it is gambling.
I just thought there may be another term to define
what I (and probably lots of others) do.
So it seems that all 'speculation' is gambling.
That's fine with me.
thanks.
The way I go about it means it is impossible for me to lose any of my 'own' money, but
I could still lose other peoples money (which is now 'mine') and this is the 'gambling' bit.
No,it does not bother me at all if it is gambling.
I just thought there may be another term to define
what I (and probably lots of others) do.
So it seems that all 'speculation' is gambling.
That's fine with me.
ok, I get it.
thanks.
The way I go about it means it is impossible for me to lose any of my 'own' money, but
I could still lose other peoples money (which is now 'mine') and this is the 'gambling' bit.
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dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
I agree the stripper is not wagering. She is making a good business decision rather than gambling
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dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
Even by your definition the house is not wagering. The gambler is betting. The house merely accepts the bet. The house/bookie has no interest in betting It is the Bette. The gambler is the better
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dlam
Visionary
Silver Level
If you going be posting definitions then at least know what it means. The house is not gambling. The bookie is not gambling. pokerstars is not gambling. It's a business just like operating a hot dog stand.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
You've actually got one thing right there - poker stars isn't gambling. That's because there's no uncertainty: they take rake and tournament fees no matter what the outcome. They really are like a hot dog stand operator in that sense.
The house and bookies are absolutely gambling though - again, like the good stock market investor they should mostly be taking +EV gambles and with the sheer volume of bets they take on any given day, month or year it's fair to expect that variance will sort itself out pretty quickly and they'll profit.
But there's definitely the chance for them to go on a bad run and lose money - and there have been instances where whales have broken the house (Kerry Packer, for example, is reputed to have made even the biggest casinos nervous on this count). Just like the punter, they're wagering money on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning more money. It takes two to make a bet, after all...
LuckyChippy
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I don't even...if I win a bet at blackjack does money appear out of thin air or are they wagering money against my money too?
Oz nailed the second one.
essambb
Rock Star
Silver Level
this games has made some poeple alot of money and lost some poeple alot of money if you from the first half it aint gambling if you from the seconed half i feel sorry for you (the game of poker is the only game that can crush your soul)
MediaBLITZ
Legend
Silver Level
Okay that's just ridiculous. Whether or not it is the act of gambling is not determined by the outcome. The act of gambling is directly linked to the wager itself.
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fugitive67
Rock Star
Silver Level
if you are making a bet, then it is gambling ... entry fee=bet ... or just throwing it directly into to the post
but i do agree with the OP in that if all he does is go on a site, freeroll up some money, micro up some more money ... that money is almost like, well i call it jeffrey dollars (ha, toyz r us) ... then if he happens to get several hundred dollars then he deposits so he can get verified or whatever and withdraw his winning ... if he doesnt, then he doesnt
but once you have made a deposit, then you can quickly get in a sitution where it becomes gambling, b/c say that $50 goes away quickly and you put in another $50 and another and another and all of sudden your orginal winnings are gone ... well then you are gambling
but gambling with an edge is the way you want to gamble and you can't get beat up in a back alley playing well and winning online poker ... well, probably you won't be
now as far as it playing into the total legalization of online poker, well i just wish it was ... hope it gets there ... to me if i can drive to a casino and make bets ... why cant i, in this modern world ... virtually visit a casino?
but i do agree with the OP in that if all he does is go on a site, freeroll up some money, micro up some more money ... that money is almost like, well i call it jeffrey dollars (ha, toyz r us) ... then if he happens to get several hundred dollars then he deposits so he can get verified or whatever and withdraw his winning ... if he doesnt, then he doesnt
but once you have made a deposit, then you can quickly get in a sitution where it becomes gambling, b/c say that $50 goes away quickly and you put in another $50 and another and another and all of sudden your orginal winnings are gone ... well then you are gambling
but gambling with an edge is the way you want to gamble and you can't get beat up in a back alley playing well and winning online poker ... well, probably you won't be
now as far as it playing into the total legalization of online poker, well i just wish it was ... hope it gets there ... to me if i can drive to a casino and make bets ... why cant i, in this modern world ... virtually visit a casino?